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Old 11-09-2007, 07:04 PM   #256
Biminibill
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

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Originally Posted by Speargun View Post
And this all has to do with DEMA how????

And now, back to our regularly scheduled flamethrowing...
Retarded and/or thoroughly entertained.

Perhaps I'm both...


What's Denny and Rich's excuse?


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Old 11-09-2007, 07:05 PM   #257
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

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Originally Posted by IRONHEAD View Post
Scott I said the same thing about the spadefish thread, this thread is alot more entertaining than that one and some good points have been brought up. carry on. (insert popcorn smiley here)
Wonderful observation!!!!!

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:28 PM   #258
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

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Plagarized from the "other" board (John Scmitt is author). Pretty impressive list of accomplishments:

FRA: Stopped extreme Hogfish bag limit reductions which were proven to be based on manipulated data produced by Gerald Ault (One of the authors of the policies used to prohibit spearfishing in the Flower Garden Banks, even though fishing is allowed).

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: Facilitated the development of an honest and factual Hogfish study with Florida FFWC scientists. This has been called one of the most successful collaborations to collect good science in the history of Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission. (FFWC).

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: Helped assure that Spearfishing was allowed if fishing was allowed at Gray’s Reef National Marine Sanctuary.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: Helped assure that spearfishing tournaments were allowed if fishing tournaments were allowed in the Florida Keys..

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: Successfully sued NMFS for violating Magnuson-Stevens to the detriment of fishermen.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: Stopped the bogus “longline buyout” that would have given the GOM Grouper fishery to the longliners at the expense of all other fishermen.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: Facilitated the establishment of Goliath Grouper tagging study being conducted by FFWC in an effort to establish the facts about this fish.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria? Are responsible for most of the hysteria that caused the closure rather than reasonable management of the Goliath Grouper fishery. It is arguable that this is to the detriment of the entire Gulf of Mexico.

FRA: Presented evidence of huge flaws in the NMFS Gag Grouper assessment, causing the assessment to be reviewed.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: The only group pressuring the NMFS to give back the GOM Red Grouper that they took by claiming that the species was overfished. This was soon proven not to be true.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?

FRA: The group primarily responsible for getting the MRFSS recreational fishing data system reviewed. The FRA was also appointed to the review panel and is committed to assure that a system that makes sense is developed.

Bill Parks & Don Demaria?
Why don't you go research what Bill Parks and Don DeMaria have done? Start with the archives of the MFC/FWC, then move to the South Atlantic Council, Stop by the Gulf Council, have a visit at the Florida Keys Sanctuary, FWRI, National Cancer Institute, Bimini Biological Field Station, etc etc.. It'll take you awhile so have at it. Also, talk to the scientists and regulators. They're telling me that they think Denny and Rich are idiots. Get back to the forum with what they say about us. Standing by...

Also, your overblown assessments of FRA's accomplishments sound like some of the newletters tree hugger groups send out about their great accomplishments - all for the same reason...to get the unsuspecting public to send in their donations. Times up; groundtruthing time!

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:39 PM   #259
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

Speargun,

Post #254 is the BEST post I've ever read!!
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:33 PM   #260
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

Last Post for me on this one.

I went to one thread at random on another site where Denny posts. Given that Denny and his bunch keep complaining about the content of my posts on Spearboard I lifted a couple of choice comments from Denny and his supporters. Given their past record I'm sure I could find stuff much nastier if I hunted for it, especially if I hunted wherever they're commenting about this thread.

Thread comments:

Denny
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email the pric* at whitcombeRD@hotmail.com
just a suggestion

That dipsh*t is not worth the time.
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Denny
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Telling him to GET BENT would be a good idea.

STITCH
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http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/acc...ccident-6.html

I replied to it to….FUK’um. I think the USCG needs a do not recover list for people like that


Nice guys...really nice...


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Old 11-09-2007, 09:32 PM   #261
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

Just got back from diving and I cant believe this is still going!

Im honored to think that someone of Bills stature and character would spend so many hours on this thread.
Thanks Bill, Im touched...

Signed,
Mr. Toadfish
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:44 PM   #262
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Talking Re: DEMA Disappointment

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Thanks Bill, Im touched...
Well Rich I guess you guys really must love each other after all.

So much energy devoted to each other on the successive days each other was not around to respond.

I have not really looked at this thread all day either as I had work to do. And even as I look now, I could only stand to glance at the last few pages and must confess I found my self laughing out loud a few times with out picking sides. I am staying out of it so I can not be accused of suppressing free speech as certain very tolerant people have claimed I have done. These same very tolerant people have a practice of encouraging the banning of contrarian voices.

I have decided against that route from past experiences where I made mistakes in judgement.

We have a conflict resolution tool here on Spearboard that has not been used in a long time called the "Steel Cage." The last time it was used was when the SPUCS dive club was facing off against the TSB dive club.

As soon as the parties were put in that cage, the conflict ended.

Another idea might be for you guys to go spear some fish together.
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:52 AM   #263
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

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I am amazed that this thread is still going.
It is amazing Scott, but I actually find it very educational. If this is typical of what the FRA has to face at these meetings, I have a whole new level of respect.
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Old 11-10-2007, 03:03 AM   #264
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

Just FYI BB, I have (not in this state, but Washington/Oregon) also dealt in depth with F&G admins, Bioligists, etc... Anyone that knows them knows one thing for sure.. They are as Clique' as they come.. You plant your lips tightly around their ass, they will love you. You challenge (heaven forbid) their reports, recommendations, science, they may smile at you and act cordial, but the minute you walk away they are laughing and toasting with the brownlipped followers... I have watched them do this to several people after meetings where I was part of their "group" simply due to my perspective as a guide, and a very successful one.. Soon, I saw the light, and in a meeting called them on their attitudes and behaviors and guess what?? I was soon out of the "Circle" so to speak..
Generally, from coast to coast, it is a pretty tight "boys club" and just as with all politics, I believe that they enter this field gung ho and ready to take on the world for their cause... They soon learn though, that they play along and follow the concesus, or they will soon find themselves studying plankton growth at the closest effluent release pipe....
I dont doubt for a second your summation that when Denny walks away, the things you say happen, happen... But that means shit to me, because I know how they can be... But when it all comes down to the rail, the facts will eventually force them to do what they are supposed to do.. As long as Denny has good hard facts to present, I could really give a rats ass how it is presented. They can call him an asshole, but if he is right in his facts, science doesnt care whether you are nice or a troll.. Their job after all, is to gather science fact and decide/mandate accordingly...

I personally wish we had about 100 Denny's and Rich's at those meetings, the "Boys Club" really needs a bit of shaking up...
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Old 11-10-2007, 07:19 AM   #265
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

Christof, my friend, (I hope)I have a question. Do you think you get more with a carrot or with a stick?
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:32 AM   #266
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Cool Re: DEMA Disappointment

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottZeagle View Post
I am amazed that this thread is still going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biminibill View Post
Last Post for me on this one. Biminibill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobile Diver View Post
It is amazing Scott, but I actually find it very educational. If this is typical of what the FRA has to face at these meetings, I have a whole new level of respect.
Based on the above comments. Maybe, just maybe..........this discussion is over. Let's hope.

Vitriolic exchanges often have elements of truth from both sides of the spectrum or divide and can be very educational as Steve points out.

I spoke with Billy Causey yesterday on his way back from the woods from his hunting trip. He said there were five authors of the Islands in the Stream proposal. He said he was not the sole author as some have tried to ascribe to him. I pummeled him with questions and he responded with answers to every one. Billy said he will share more information next week when he returns to his office.

Based on discussions I had yesterday with CCA and several other big organizations in the fisheries lobbying world, I have a feeling they will be strongly opposing the proposal, but Billy should be given the professional courtesy of hearing him out before making firm conclusions or taking positions. We will not call him names or try to malign his character. That would be counter-productive.

I want to thank everyone for partcipating in this sometimes heated discussion of the image Spearfishers portray to the general publiic and to fisheries regulators and scientists. While the thread strayed around and broached conflict rules and had to be reigned back in a bit, the thread has served to show we can tolerate contrarian viewpoints and not censor those opinions about approaches taken by various participants in the regulatory process. Image improvement should be the goal for all of us. I hope everyone involved can truly work together to protect and enhance the sport of spearfishing.
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Last edited by SpearMax; 11-10-2007 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:46 AM   #267
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

I agree with Tony about hearing them out.I do not agree with any attacks in public as they make us look like jackasses at times.

Attacking the logic,methodology,science,reasoning,data,veracity of the compilers or gatherers of data,and that kind of systematical dismantling of the MPA idea is the way to further our cause.

And we have to beat the MPA agenda,which as we have heard has no peer-reviewed study verifying it ability to do what it is supposedly intended to do.
I have no problem abiding by sensible limits and spawning closures if the science backing the numbers is sound.Right now I do not believe it is.I do believe many researchers are using an incremental agenda they can to restrict Fishing at any level.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:58 AM   #268
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Re: DEMA Disappointment

I discussed this with some of the particpiants in this thread and several feel the thread should be closed now. We will not delete the thread or edit it. New threads can be started if need be. Thanks, Tony
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Last edited by SpearMax; 11-10-2007 at 09:11 AM.
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