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View Poll Results: RIB or Jet Skii
12-14' RIB ex a Zodiac 43 68.25%
2 sit down Jet skiis 20 31.75%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-22-2007, 07:26 PM   #31
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

while not what your looking for, i rode in a 24 ft rib with twin 200s about a week ago and it was amazing
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:55 PM   #32
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Quote:
Originally Posted by florfreediver View Post
Hi All,
Anyone have any idea on getting back up on that rig, without having to remove long fins?
Cannot see clearly behind the guys legs on the Jet Ski but that bar looks like it may run right across the back and also along the sides?
Could make for a difficult remount?
Mike.
Likes like the only place that doesn't have a bar across the bottom is on the right hand side. I guess you could probably pull up on that side and swing around with your fins on, but it's hard to say from the picks. Check out the website they have a few more pics online there.
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:56 PM   #33
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

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Originally Posted by HurricaneBK View Post
while not what your looking for, i rode in a 24 ft rib with twin 200s about a week ago and it was amazing
What would be the cost for something like that. Keep in mind that i'm trying to stay around 6-10k so the old lady won't flip out about my new toy.
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:29 PM   #34
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

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Originally Posted by LGHT View Post
Likes like the only place that doesn't have a bar across the bottom is on the right hand side. I guess you could probably pull up on that side and swing around with your fins on, but it's hard to say from the picks. Check out the website they have a few more pics online there.
Thanks LGHT,
As you suggested, I took the time to check the website and it answered my worry about getting back on with fins.
It looks like there is enough space back there (without the rod holders) to be able to pull yourself up and turn.
Mike.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:00 PM   #35
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

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Originally Posted by florfreediver View Post
Thanks LGHT,
As you suggested, I took the time to check the website and it answered my worry about getting back on with fins.
It looks like there is enough space back there (without the rod holders) to be able to pull yourself up and turn.
Mike.
Let me know if you get a setup. I would be great to get a review from a diver and I would really be interested in setting up a ski if I go that route.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:04 PM   #36
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

how 'bout an 8' plastic dinghy as the "sled"

http://www.boatersworld.com/product/...boats%3Bciboat
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:42 PM   #37
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Can anyone let me know where you can get a sled for a seadoo. I dive off mine and use a rubbermaid trash can straped to the back for my fish and gear, but I could really get some crap on there with a sled. I sold my 19ft center console because it's just so easy to dive off my doo.
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Old 01-22-2008, 02:50 PM   #38
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Have you purchased anything yet? Didn't see a response to any decision, maybe I missed it...

I could help with PWC information request. I've been going to Catalina since 1989 back on stand ups...then racing the sit downs...Here is my formula for my races on a Yamaha XLT 1200 two stroke (have to be brand/model/year specific for accuracy)..18.5 gallon fuel tank. Sea state at 1-3', 3/4 + throttle above average at speed, the distance from launching at Queens Landing in Long Beach to Catalina (Avalon) is about 1 hour and 15 minutes round trip, approx. 60 transit miles, fuel tank 'empty' upon return. You can refuel in Avalon.

Santa Barbara to Channel Island San Miguel north point. Yamaha FX 140 four stroke, 18.5 gallon fuel tank, transit over 100 miles one full tank consumed. Took a spare 5 gallons along in case, speed was moderate sea state was 1'-3'..never refueled....slower riding pace.

And the key is it going to be one person on board or two? Two would be a hard ride, uncomfrotable and exhausting.

Now when you discuss the distance traveled, you must look at 3 things..sea state, vessel type, operator knowledge (safety preparation too). The weight of the actual vessels, payload and occupants plays into this as well as weather conditions, currents, swell, navigational accuracy.

The newer four stroke models are pushing upwards from 165 HP to 323HP, so realistically the higher HP engines are burning more fuel...the Kawasaki ultra 250 has a 20 gallon tank, but burns the same amount as a 16.4 gallon lesser high powered craft....so it's leveling out...I think that can be attributed to male hormones...testosterone seems to love speed...LOL

Using a rescue board will create more drag in the water as well. Rescue boards are tough to find resale, but check craiglist or ebay or the manufacturers for used sales. They usually get trashed by the users. A new rescue board will run $1K to $1,650 depending upon the brand. I recommend the Wahoo Lifesled if you are looking merely at pricepoint.

The rescue board is a great utility device that is very helpful for nearshore diving. You can set crab pots/lobster traps and take your dive/SCUBA gear out on a limited basis, but for quick short hauls, a good way to go.

I raced from Key West Flordia to New York City in 6 days, 1600 miles..I used a Yamaha SUV...That is the SWEETEST boat for fishing/diving..I highly recommend it to anyone..its' a twostroke, is larger than the 3 seaters but has more storage capacity. They are no longer mfg, but you can find them in the 'boat trader' or online for sale..if you can find one grab it. You can even put a four stroke engine in them...if you like. I'm going to try to get one this year for myself. That is the best utility boat, however they are larger in size so be forewarned.

Pricepoint on used PWC's depends upon what you are looking for. You should determine a few things up front by defining them, then identifying the specific craft that suits that definition. I would be cautious in purchasing a used PWC if you have little knowledge of wear and tear.

PWC's have a lifespan of around 400-500 operational hours depending upon the preventative maintenance and owner abuse. You would want to know how many hours the PWC has. You should inspect the pump housing and a zillion other items before purchasing or have a mechanic check it out for you. Get the cylinders compression checked and remember putting a PWC on a garden hose fitting with water running through the cooling system does not give you an effective perspective of the overall integrity of the craft. It must be placed in water and put under a load to test the bottom to top end response.

As for open water transits...be very careful. I could write a whole thread on this alone, along with recommended and required equipment and prudent mariner rules..LOL You definetly do not want to go on the ocean (no matter how far) without a GPS, compass, functioning radio, spare batteries, flashlight, flare kit, chem lights, float plan, cell phone, fog horn...ask me how I know? LOL You need to know how to use the GPS and the range of your radio, if the batteries fail a compass for backup, you can mount these in the glove box on the front console...then there is your personal gear, what if you fall overboard at speed, and cannot swim back to the PWC, you are now in the water...the radio/GPS/cell need to be on your person, with swim fins and fin belt. How much you want to know? Everything?

Open water transits you need a seaworthy vessel and many times you cannot see Catalina from the mainland, and fog comes in fast...I've had some negative experience dancing with the mists myself, can be hectic out there, and that channel can change quickly. Small boat transits, and our PWC's are very small on the horizon for visuals need to be taken seriously. Your PWC would not only need your dive gear stored properly so it doesn't come loose but your safety gear as well. I really think an SUV 4 seater is the bomb for this kind of action..more stable platform....posting a pic of mine, you can see its 'oversized' in comparison to 3 seaters..the rear 2 compartments have so much storage. I added 2 USCG approved fuel tanks back there so my operating range was off of 3 fuel tanks....for this race...but you can put wakeboards inside those openings, they run the full interior of the hull.

Now for nearshore expeditions....get a depth guage and set your anchor in a safe shore zone away from breakers/traffic/tidal changes wiht enough scope and chain to your anchor for proper mooring. DO not tie off to your handlebars, swell or boat wakes can flip your PWC upside down, redering it inoperable. Think of swell conditions as the day evolves, you don't want sneaker sets taking your PWC out of range...

Last Saturday when water clarity was perfect, 2 friens and I launched out of Morro Bay, diving that day, the coast was wide open, and a PWC was a perfect access vessel. Taking a buddy is very important, I would say try to never ride alone.....


As for pricing...pricing depends upon age, age depends upon use, and location. So...you get what you pay for. Like any boat it can be expensive to maintain 2, 2 PWC's are 2 boats...the shop rate is pushing $90 - $100 labor now on repairs...

A really good thread...thanks for posting and I hope you got sorted out with your boat directives!
Shawn
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Old 01-23-2008, 03:30 PM   #39
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Shawn wow you posted some VERY good info and things to consider. I have basically decided on a PWC as my association won't allow a "boat" to be stored in the garage however a ski with an enclosed trailer is ok. I haven't really done the research on type or model just yet, but I did want a larger one for range and storage purposes. I have looked at a couple of used ones, but neither looked like they where in good condition so I passed. My biggest problem is I know little or nothing about mechanics and have never owned a boat or ski before. Basically I will have to rely on a mechanic no matter what I get. For that reason I'm leaning toward a new one where I won't have to worry about abuse from the previous owner. I'm also leaning toward a mounted bracket on the back like the one JLittle44 posted instead of a rescue board or sled that I would pull behind the ski. I would probably only use it locally with maybe 1 person on the back and at most a few trips to Catalina a couple of times a year. I was looking at the 08 Yamaha FX Cruiser HO mainly it has the Nano Xcel Hull making it almost 100 lbs lighter although $1,000 more. Found some good info on the new Hull's and it listed as lighter, stronger, and faster.

Info on HULL
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:44 PM   #40
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGHT View Post
Shawn wow you posted some VERY good info and things to consider. I have basically decided on a PWC as my association won't allow a "boat" to be stored in the garage however a ski with an enclosed trailer is ok. I haven't really done the research on type or model just yet, but I did want a larger one for range and storage purposes. I have looked at a couple of used ones, but neither looked like they where in good condition so I passed. My biggest problem is I know little or nothing about mechanics and have never owned a boat or ski before. Basically I will have to rely on a mechanic no matter what I get. For that reason I'm leaning toward a new one where I won't have to worry about abuse from the previous owner. I'm also leaning toward a mounted bracket on the back like the one JLittle44 posted instead of a rescue board or sled that I would pull behind the ski. I would probably only use it locally with maybe 1 person on the back and at most a few trips to Catalina a couple of times a year. I was looking at the 08 Yamaha FX Cruiser HO mainly it has the Nano Xcel Hull making it almost 100 lbs lighter although $1,000 more. Found some good info on the new Hull's and it listed as lighter, stronger, and faster.

Info on HULL
Ahoy...

You picked a winner, that lighter hull is a big plus. Remember, when you drill a hole through the hull, the warranty is voided on that. The Yamaha powerplants have a very good marine industry background for reliability and anti corrossion...good choice.


I was going to tell you (check this link) http://www.pwctexas.us/syamaha00suva.html This would have been a good boat and a good example for your needs, you wouldn't need a rescue board with the SUV. I didn't understand what the seller meant by engine overhaul, I think he meant services but I interpreted that as a rebuild...?

Here is a pic of a great waterman, Nelz Vellocido from San Diego...he's quite the fisherman, many in California and in big numbers in Hawai'i are using PWC for fishing and diving now...like a sub culture of boaters..LOL

I used my Jet Ski and rescue board to set crab pots and pull 'em outside of Mavericks last season when the swells were big...I'd drive out, pull/or set and then go back and do a little water rescue if the waves were going off. Bigger the swell easier to pull up...
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:49 PM   #41
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

WOW k38 rescue great 411, I'm sure quite few spearo's on this board will use this info- WTG
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:18 AM   #42
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Thank you Shawn for a comprehensive report.

Being a dive shop owner with limited time to go diving, the idea of owning a PWC becomes more and more appealing. I have about 3 hours in the morning to do my thing.

A few basic questions, if you do not mind, and have the time.
Just yes or no answers would suffice.

1. Is the reversing feature an essential one and how many PWC's have them.
I am thinking of quickly getting it off a trailer at the slip.

2. Can a typical PWC engine be effectively rinsed out with a hose fitting of some sort?

3. Does running up the beach cause significant damage to the motor? Sand getting in the works so to speak?
I do not intend to do this as a routine, but in an emergency, running up the local beach seems a nice feature when you are by yourself diving.
My dive spots are a few miles down the coast from the slip/inlet but relatively close to some semi private beaches.
Trump may "fire me" for running up his beach but what the hell :>)

Thanks,
Mike.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:10 PM   #43
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Quote:
Originally Posted by florfreediver View Post
Thank you Shawn for a comprehensive report.

Being a dive shop owner with limited time to go diving, the idea of owning a PWC becomes more and more appealing. I have about 3 hours in the morning to do my thing.

A few basic questions, if you do not mind, and have the time.
Just yes or no answers would suffice.

1. Is the reversing feature an essential one and how many PWC's have them.
I am thinking of quickly getting it off a trailer at the slip.

Not in my estimation. The function of reverse is often missused by operators as a 'brake'. It is not a true reverse function, the driveline/impeller do not spin in reverse. A 'reverse gate' (bucket) drops down over the steering nozzle water exit point. Basically it redirects the jet stream flow (aerated water) in a downward position and then your PWC essentially backs up over the aerated water..causing cavitation depending upon how much throttle is applied. You can use it to help with removal from a trailer, but be mindful you create currents if other boaters are on the slip the sound and water movement will draw attention and leave a bad impression. Best to get PVC runners placed atop your bunks on the trailer for an easy slide on/off of the trailer, nice and tidy.

2. Can a typical PWC engine be effectively rinsed out with a hose fitting of some sort?

Yes, there are 4 major mfg's Honda has a water oulet located inside the jet pump cavity on the port side, basically you just place the garden hose fitting coupler over this and flush the water cooling system. If you are getting a Bombardier Sea Doo, they have several of the larger 3 seaters that have a coolant system similar to your vehicle, a closed system so there is no flushing itself, but you still have to wash and rinse the interior/exterior. Yamaha has a custom male/female twist coupler that is in a fixed position on newer models such as the FX 140's located between the forward and aft seats. It connects to a basic garden hose fitting. Kawasaki on their newer models such as the STX's has a yellow plastic cap that is removed and reveals the male aspect of the brass garden hose fitting that is fit into the hull under the forward cowling (cover). Place the flush kit caps back in place afer each use as backflow will be experienced. I don't thread the STX fitting, I just hold the hose up and get sprayed, its a hassle to line them up if the hose has any ring damage. There is also a 'cheater way' to flush if you lose your OEM fittings.but not telling here..LOL

Flushing is not just for salt water, it is for any waterway use, it is for silt and debris that can clog the cooling system itself in interior water jackets and turns....and many people enjoy using Saltaway.

On the newer four strokes, for instance the Yamaha FX models have the same powerplant as the R1 superbikes, there are 20 valves...don't rev these engines drylocked (pump out of water or on a flush kit hoseline) over 4,000rpm..you can damage the engine..the OEMs will say 6,000 but its safe to keep it less, and not over 10 seconds dry reve, OEM's say 15, but I am conservative.

Make sure you have water running through the system, for instance if you are at a coin operated meter for water....watch those quarters! Students in my classes have ruined engines forgetting this...a twenty five cent mistake.

Flushing: Engage lanyard on post. Check to see stern is 'clear'/pump is clearof debris. Turn engine 'on'. Hook up hose immediately, turn water on..2-3 minutes with water flow, rev engine a few times not over 4,000rpm...shut off water, 3-4 bursts of throttle at 4,000 rmp...shut off craft. Purge remaining water in system 3-4 more times over a 10 minute period, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 pull on throttle lever, not more than 10 seconds....

Spray down pump (exit/entrance) with recommended silicone spray (do not use WD 40). Spray throttle cable/interior of all compartments LIBERALLY. Check contact points for marine grease points....blah blah...

3. Does running up the beach cause significant damage to the motor? Sand getting in the works so to speak?

There are keel guards you can buy for protectors, but you have to maintain those they fall off with wear. It only causes engine damage if you run the engine over 10 seconds dry...then the newer models will have a thermostat sensor that will put the engine into a safe mode. Sand will grind down your keel/gel coat over time, you look back depending upon the type of silt/sand and you'll see a white streak that may look like the bottom of your white hull..LOL. Sand can become compacted in the water intake portion of the intake screen, small cobble rocks, or driftwood...don't start the boat on the beach on sand until you check the pump, anything in there can chunk the pump (impeller/guide veins)...The engine won't be affected, but your pump can, and if you land on small rocks you can fracture the guide veins on the intake screen. Put the PWC back in the water and push up and down on the stern to try to flush out any debris. Same thing on a trailer always check the pump for clearage before you start the engine.

I run up on the beach often myself...in some locations...with hectic ocean waves, if the shore is not so hectic you can moor with a simple float/anchor in 2-3' of water if no current or surge...

I do not intend to do this as a routine, but in an emergency, running up the local beach seems a nice feature when you are by yourself diving.

Depends what model you have, they are starting to push 900 lbs plus...Yamaha has a new hull this year that takes 100 lbs off the weight of the hull itself. It will take a LOT of people to get a larger PWC back into the water...or passer bys'....so it depends...I do it but I'm careful about where and why...


My dive spots are a few miles down the coast from the slip/inlet but relatively close to some semi private beaches.

Anchor the boat. (PWC). We anchor, it's not too difficult, just get the best set up for the area you are working in with the geomorphic underwater terrain. Don't tie off to kelp patches in California..>HHAHAH

Trump may "fire me" for running up his beach but what the hell :>)

Thanks,
Mike.
You are welcome!
Shawn
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #44
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

good questions...a few more answers.

The Majority of the newer high end PWC's have reverse function capability, some of them have trim capability to adjust the steering nozzle pitch and a few have helm trim to raise or lower the helm (handlebars)..

Just don't store the PWC with the lanyard engaged in the ignition post. Most of these newer model PWC's are going to digital coding on the ignition systems similar to our vehicles. They also have padlock codes for the LCD digital console when parked on a beach or while anchored so nobody can drive off with them, they would have to tow and you would have to remember you code or key! LOL

As far as running up on a beach....well, the only thing you want to be mindful of is compacting the water cooling intake with debris..this is positioned inside the jet pump cavity, it would take surge from the stern sitting in water over time and an awkward situation usually for this to be significant, but it can happen...and driving in aerated shore conditions, sand is being drawn up and you are pulling that into the water cooling lines...compaction of these lines can cause a vessel to overheat, the newer models have exhaust/temp warnings on sensors and safe modes to reduce potential engine failure or damage....I think Ocean Pro makes a water trap separator that you cut the water hose intake near the pickup in the back compartment, splice the hose and 2 hose clamps and a drop down position its ready to go, about $20 or so...and you have to check this daily after use...you don't want this to be clogged as well, so there is an aftermarket product that is designed for this....


Any emergency, yes run the boat in.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:04 AM   #45
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Re: 12'-14' RIB or 2 Jet Skiis???

Hydrotrailer. I have one of these and I love it, only thing here is a mounting bracket to add to the PWC...but it tracks really good from the stern. The jet wash stream is very powerful on PWC's...so anything you tow or drag needs to fit nice and tidy inside the trailing wash and channels, if too short line on a fast haul the towed device will fishtail and can catch and edge or shockload on the line...or worse yet, the jet thrust in chop or swell can sink it...so it depends upon weather/water conditions and length of tow line, type of device being towed and throttle control (speed).

Really good questions on this thread I think.

Thought I would post this here for all to read who might be interested.

YOU can tow anything, that's not the problem, its like everything, the behavior of the operator in respect to what they are doing...so anything can work, its just you have to give up one thing to get another....

http://www.hydrotrailer.com/


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