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Old 05-04-2014, 08:50 PM   #1
popgun pete
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Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

A new pneumatic speargun design has been developed in Greece by Alex Orfanidis. It is his "Inalex Alpha C1" speargun which is a further refinement of his earlier "Inalex" speargun using the same "releasing valve" principle to actually fire the gun. Hence there is no sear tooth as such holding a sliding piston in the inner barrel, instead the releasing valve is controlled by a ball locking system and when this ball system is freed by you pulling the trigger the releasing valve is moved rearwards in the gun thereby unplugging the rear end of the inner barrel. Compressed air then rushes through the opening to push the piston along the inner barrel driving the shaft at high velocity from the gun. The inner barrel bore is 14 mm and in a sense the gun is the modern equivalent of the old GSD "Katiuscia" which was also a releasing valve gun, but that gun used a lever system to pull the releasing valve rearwards, whereas the "Inalex Alpha C1" speargun uses the pressure differential existing between the interior of the gun and the external environment.

Like the "Katiuscia" the "Alpha C1" has variable power capabilities by using an internal throttle control system which is varied by rotating the butt end of the gun. As the air pressure operated internal releasing valve blocks off any possible air connection to the rear end of the gun it is pre-pressurized by operating a muzzle controlled "switch" to transform the inner barrel to "air pump" mode. You pump the gun barrel as the gun draws ambient air via the muzzle opening with each pumping stroke, this opening being closed off once the gun is fully pressurized and the gun is then returned to shooting mode.

To muzzle load the gun you can press the spear in with partial insertion strokes, any air driven into the air reservoir is trapped there until you squeeze the last of the air volume in the inner barrel tube into the reservoir at which time the spear stays fully inserted in the inner barrel. All releasing valve guns work in this fashion, there being a small rebound of the shaft as you can never squeeze absolutely every air molecule through the non-return valve on the nose of the releasing valve (refer to the summary diagram attached here to see where it is).

Releasing valve pneumatic spearguns are not new, but ones that float after the shot are few and far between, so it was a pleasant surprise to learn that this one does, or at least the 97 cm to 137 cm models do. A shorter 77 cm model does not float yet, but modifications may allow this if future investment in tooling can be justified by the sales volume of the new guns. Speaking personally a longer gun is desirable in clearer water, so in my view the most applicable sizes already float.

Right now Alex is interested in more spearfishermen knowing about his gun, so here are a few photos and a summary diagram based on his patent for the gun. Here he demonstrates how the "Alpha C1" gun operates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USfpFDuFRgo and here you can see the gun in its component parts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZB8GbnJxzXc

The grip handle can be installed at various positions on the gun, the changing element is the pull rod running back to the operating mechanism in the rear end of the gun.

The muzzle photo below shows the muzzle in "air pump" mode, you can see the air breather holes exposed in the inner barrel tube.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 05-04-2014 at 09:55 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:22 PM   #2
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

The "Alpha C1" models available are, in terms of gun overall length L and the barrel length (in brackets): 77 cm (60 cm), 97 cm (80 cm), 117 cm (100 cm) and 137 cm (120 cm). I assume the "barrel length" is the working course of the piston, so to obtain the working course of the piston you subtract 17 from the overall length of the gun in centimeters. The "working course" is the distance the spear is travelling under power in the speargun's inner barrel.

NB. The grip handle can be placed at whatever position you want on the gun when you order it.

Maximum Operating Pressure: 30 Bar

Usual Operating Pressure: 18 - 20 Bar

Loading Effort: 22 - 25 kgf for the above air pressures

An earlier version of the "Inalex" gun is shown here for comparison with the latest version of the gun.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 05-04-2014 at 09:58 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:45 PM   #3
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

Here is a video clip of the gun in action: ALPHA C SPESHIAL - YouTube
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:53 AM   #4
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

In fact there are a whole bunch of "You Tube" videos about this gun, they can all be found here. http://www.youtube.com/user/construktorALPHAgun/videos

Alex is on facebook if you want to contact him, however he only communicates in Russian and consequently I have been using the on-line translators to do so. I never tried Greek as I know zero about the Greek language (and probably not a lot more in Russian!), but maybe you can communicate in that if you both know it.

https://www.facebook.com/alex.orfanidis.7
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:36 PM   #5
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

There is now a new web-site: http://inalex.biz/

It looks like it is still under development, but the basic layout and text are there, as are the contact details if you are interested in purchasing an Inalex "Alpha C1" speargun.
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Old 08-28-2014, 07:59 PM   #6
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

I recently revisited the web-site and see that there is now a "Bazooka" version of the gun. Here is a portion of a photo from the site, click on the "models" button at the top of the home page to see the rest of it. The front end of the gun's tank now has an elliptical shape, but I don't know anything more about it.
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:16 PM   #7
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

I just had another look to see if these "Alpha C1", releasing valve operation, pneumatic spearguns were still around and they are, so if you want a high power shooter here is one with a big bore inner barrel at 14 mm ID. That provides a 60 percent plus increase over an 11 mm ID gun as (14/11) squared equals 1.62, or 62% more grunt!

I know that Alex has a vacuum muzzle patent, so there may be a pneumo-vacuum version of this gun as well.

Also to see more photos of one of these guns prepped for action look here: https://forums.deeperblue.com/thread...n.88246/page-3, post #44 has great images.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 12-16-2016 at 07:29 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:08 PM   #8
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
I just had another look to see if these "Alpha C1", releasing valve operation, pneumatic spearguns were still around and they are, so if you want a high power shooter here is one with a big bore inner barrel at 14 mm ID. That provides a 60 percent plus increase over an 11 mm ID gun as (14/11) squared equals 1.62, or 62% more grunt!

I know that Alex has a vacuum muzzle patent, so there may be a pneumo-vacuum version of this gun as well.

Also to see more photos of one of these guns prepped for action look here: https://forums.deeperblue.com/thread...n.88246/page-3, post #44 has great images.
In terms of the 62% increase, since you still have to load against the air pressure, doesn't it even itself out compared to an 11mm gun? It's not like you magically gain 62% power as you have to drop the air pressure in the gun as the surface area of the piston goes up, right?
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:30 PM   #9
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
In terms of the 62% increase, since you still have to load against the air pressure, doesn't it even itself out compared to an 11mm gun? It's not like you magically gain 62% power as you have to drop the air pressure in the gun as the surface area of the piston goes up, right?
You get out what you put in, minus losses, so the 14 mm gun will deliver more provided you can load it. There is no "evening out" as the energy stored in the 14 mm ID inner barrel gun will be higher for the same charge pressure in both it and the 11 mm ID gun. To think otherwise shows a flaw in your understanding of pneumatic spearguns. You would not be dropping the pressure to compensate.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:53 AM   #10
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
I just had another look to see if these "Alpha C1", releasing valve operation, pneumatic spearguns were still around and they are, so if you want a high power shooter here is one with a big bore inner barrel at 14 mm ID. That provides a 60 percent plus increase over an 11 mm ID gun as (14/11) squared equals 1.62, or 62% more grunt![...]
I don't think my understanding is flawed but maybe my choice of words weren't the best.

But seriously Pete, in this very rare instance your post actually reads a lot like a sales pitch and if you are in the market for a "high power shooter" - which many spearo always are - you could just buy this gun and then you would could gain a 62% increase in pop over an 11mm gun. That's exactly how it reads.

Such a claim though is frankly a bit unsettling from a real world perspective. For your argument to make sense that would mean that the 11mm gun you are comparing it to would be grossly under-pressurized (to assume same charge pressures across different pistons sizes is not fair either).
People listen to you a whole lot on these forums - for good reason - but it would be sad if someone with a "flaw in their understanding of pneumatic spearguns" - such as a newbie to oleos - read your post and went out to buy a 14mm gun thinking they would get a 62% increase in power over an 11mm gun by doing so.

Your argument was theoretical sound as always, but you normally keep it real-world, too. But you left the latter part out this time which threw me off as I assumed that we are are pretty much always maxing out our guns in terms of the pressure that we can load against. Personally, my 11mm gun is at 29bar, which would correspond to 20.7 bar in a 13mm gun in loading effort (actually my 13mm gun is at about 18-20 bar).
So for me to get your 62% 'grunt increase' in a 14mm gun that would mean my 11mm gun would only have 18 bar in it and that makes very little sense;-)

We have had this chat before. Piston diameter doesn't really matter when most spearos will put as much air in the gun as they can load against.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 12-17-2016 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:17 AM   #11
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

I just re-read my previous post and it can seem a bit strong.

But I assume that when loading the Alpha you load it like most traditional oleos; muzzle-loading against the full pressure in the gun, right?
And then I took into account that all my guns are pressurized to the max I can load it against, despite what size the piston is. I am quite sure the vast majority of all oleo spearos pressurize their guns in the same manner and that is why I think the "same charge pressure" comparison is strictly for academic purposes.

Allow me to be stupid and I say this in respect for the engineering effort going into this but isn't the Alpha, in practical usage, a traditional oleo "just" with a very different trigger mech (and perhaps a better airway path)? There is no Mirage-ish tricks to load it against lower pressures, right?
I get that you can use multiple strokes to load it, but that doesn't lower the force needed for the final latching effort, right?
If my understanding of how the Alpha is loaded is wrong- if there is a way where you 'partition' and lower the loading effort somehow, then please disregard my previous post.

If not, then I still think we should talk apples to apples and use similar loading force and not piston size when we compare guns. The only way I can see the bigger piston gaining an advantage is if you're strong enough to max out guns with smaller pistons and don't feel like going over the recommended max pressure of that smaller piston gun.

With respect,
David

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 12-17-2016 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:32 AM   #12
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
[...]

NB. The grip handle can be placed at whatever position you want on the gun when you order it.

Maximum Operating Pressure: 30 Bar

Usual Operating Pressure: 18 - 20 Bar

Loading Effort: 22 - 25 kgf for the above air pressures

[...]
I don't understand these numbers....
A 14mm piston has a surface area of 1.54cm2, correct?
So, at the muzzle, the loading effort at 20bar shouldn't that be (1.54cm2 x 20kg/cm2) = 31.4kgf?

Where is the magic happening in this gun?
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:47 AM   #13
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
I don't understand these numbers....
A 14mm piston has a surface area of 1.54cm2, correct?
So, at the muzzle, the loading effort at 20bar shouldn't that be (1.54cm2 x 20kg/cm2) = 31.4kgf?

Where is the magic happening in this gun?
No magic, you just need to think about it; remember read, think, type rather than type, read, think. Sorry to be blunt, but I am not here to teach you.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:54 AM   #14
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
No magic, you just need to think about it; remember read, think, type rather than type, read, think. Sorry to be blunt, but I am not here to teach you.
Stop being snide and stop thinking that I am the only one who would wonder about these things. You are blessed with a mathematician's brain but a tad cursed in thinking that people who aren't should be belittled. You know how much I respect your skills, so this is a bit unseemly.
It would have taken you about the same time to "teach" me and others who would see this thread instead of what you replied. Contrary to what you might think, I did try my best. You probably do math in your sleep so you could easily have told me if and how A). My math is off, B). Aleks's math is off or C). The gun works in a different way than I assumed.

So here goes, teach': I have read and thought some more and will type again: How does Alpha Aleks make 20 bar on a 14mm piston come out to 25kgf of loading force...?

And if there is no magic in this gun, can we at least agree that the Alpha gun won't shoot with 62% more power compared to an 11mm gun by real life spearos who would put as much pressure in both of them that they can load them against?

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 12-17-2016 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:53 PM   #15
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Re: Inalex "Alpha C1" pneumatic speargun

Don't confuse the manufacturer's indicative range of loading effort with that required to load his gun at 30 Bar, those figures are for the gun at minimum pressure, not maximum or even anywhere near it. You seem to want to create a reputation here, just make sure that it is not the wrong one.

In Soviet-era Russia pneumatic speargun operating manuals had to be more precise and honest, although the buyer still had to think about what the figures actually meant. Here is an example for a "Prizm", or an RPB-1M.
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