Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > General Topics (Non-regional) > Spearfishing Regulations

Spearfishing Regulations This area is for the topic of existing or proposed Spearfishing Regulations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-18-2016, 08:02 AM   #1
Keysdivers
keysdivers
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Marathon,Florida Keys
Posts: 799
Hogfish

Worst scenerio is now becoming law.
State fishery managers have voted to enact the following regulations
Harvest season May1 through October 31
Reduced bag limit from 5 to 1 per person
Minimum size increased to 16"

Reduced bag limit and increased size are both good ideas and reseach has shown that these 2 rules would decrease mortality by 60%.
Closing the season from November 1 till April 30 is really over the top.

Effective date to be announced
Keysdivers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 03:39 PM   #2
Jankglass
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Key largo
Age: 27
Posts: 102
Re: Hogfish

I wouldn't call it a worse case scenario..
Jankglass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 08:30 PM   #3
snookit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Re: Hogfish

What would you call it ?

A travesty

An injustice

A Royal screwing

A knee jerk reaction

A part of a larger plan to remove different user groups from the ocean

Just curios
snookit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2016, 09:39 AM   #4
kmoose
Team Headhunter
 
kmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slowcala, FL
Age: 52
Posts: 3,817
Re: Hogfish

I would call it a long overdue action that caused it to be more drastic than it would have been if acted on 5-8 years ago. That is not our fault or responsibility, it is theirs but we will suffer from the delay of their actions. A 2-3 bag limit of fish >16" would be not be argued by many. If we would have self regulated and not plowed every 12" milk mouth hog that swam it could have been different as well.
__________________
The Moose is Loose !
"SUPER SPORTY"
kmoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2016, 07:40 PM   #5
snookit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Re: Hogfish

I have only been diving 10 yrs and in a relatively small are mostly Boynton thru ftlauderdale.

In that time I have seen no noticeable difference in the hogfish populations. This year they have been particularly thick.

So maybe yrs ago you could shoot 5 10 lb hogfish every trip but I doubt it.

I have never had trouble finding hogfish in my area

I find it hard to believe a fish that gets near zero pressure from rod and reel is in need of such drastic measures.

A fish that is so abundant everyone sees and shoots them can not be that endangered.


I respect your opinion while overwhelmingly disagreeing with it

Are you also in agreement with the Atlantic red snapper fiasco??


It's easy to agre with theese measures when they do not affect you. ( gulf coast, commercial connections)

What we really enjoy about this sport is shooting fish. Sure the wrecks are cool ,the reefs are pretty and the creatures are amazing bot I like to shoot fish.

If I have 8 hrs to kill on a Sunday I don't want to shoot two fish and go home I want to spend the day doing what I love SHOOTING FISH.

Hopefully I can get my fix on commercial trips now.
snookit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2016, 08:36 PM   #6
kwyoungspear
Registered User
 
kwyoungspear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Michigan/Key West
Posts: 567
Re: Hogfish

You won't get much of a "fix" when it comes to hog fish even on a commercial trip with a 25 pound trip limit.

I have seen a slight decrease in the population of Hog fish around Key West over the past 10 years. Even when I was 13 years old I thought 12 inches was too small and that it should be raised. The problem is not everybody thought so. Also back when I was 13 I knew of some really nice coral heads that were loaded with hogs. A friend of mine and I would go out there on his boat whenever we could to shoot some fish and one day I we brought a kid that lived down the canal and he started to go out to the same spot I showed him every weekend with his friends and they would shoot the shit out of hogs with 4 kids on there boat a few times a week. Every time the hogs got smaller and smaller and after awhile most weren't even legal. I was on summer vacation for most of this and when I came back the spot and the surrounding area it was slim pickings.

Sorry for the story/rant but I thought it was relevant.

Like Moose said it was a little too much just a little too late. That's still better than too little too late.
__________________
kwyoungspear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2016, 07:38 AM   #7
kmoose
Team Headhunter
 
kmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slowcala, FL
Age: 52
Posts: 3,817
Re: Hogfish

Quote:
Originally Posted by snookit View Post
I have only been diving 10 yrs and in a relatively small are mostly Boynton thru ftlauderdale.

In that time I have seen no noticeable difference in the hogfish populations. This year they have been particularly thick.

So maybe yrs ago you could shoot 5 10 lb hogfish every trip but I doubt it.

I have never had trouble finding hogfish in my area

I find it hard to believe a fish that gets near zero pressure from rod and reel is in need of such drastic measures.

A fish that is so abundant everyone sees and shoots them can not be that endangered.


I respect your opinion while overwhelmingly disagreeing with it

Are you also in agreement with the Atlantic red snapper fiasco??


It's easy to agre with theese measures when they do not affect you. ( gulf coast, commercial connections)

What we really enjoy about this sport is shooting fish. Sure the wrecks are cool ,the reefs are pretty and the creatures are amazing bot I like to shoot fish.

If I have 8 hrs to kill on a Sunday I don't want to shoot two fish and go home I want to spend the day doing what I love SHOOTING FISH.

Hopefully I can get my fix on commercial trips now.
I shoot on both coasts so this does affect me. Don't assume you know everything about me when you don't.
FYI, I made 2 commercial trips this year with a captain who has been my best friend for over 20 years. 95% of my spearfishing is done off my own boat as a recreational diver.

OK, now lets look what has happened to hog snapper over the years on the southeast Florida coast....
Here is a pic on a standard day of freediving off Miami 35 years ago in 20' of water. When do you think the last time someone shot a batch of hogs like this? I think they would throw you a street parade if you did it today. Do you really think hogs are in good shape on the east coast? There were only a dozen or so boats shooting hogs when I was a kid. How many boat would you guess are targeting them now? I think your perception of a healthy hog fishery is greatly skewed by your youth. Yeah, Yeah, I know you want to blast everything all day.... been there done that, but is the fishery strong enough for everyone that now owns a speargun and boat to follow that narrative?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Don, Dad and me.jpg
Views:	226
Size:	140.6 KB
ID:	230072   Click image for larger version

Name:	13 lb hog 1977.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	131.4 KB
ID:	230073  
__________________
The Moose is Loose !
"SUPER SPORTY"
kmoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 05:24 AM   #8
Keysdivers
keysdivers
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Marathon,Florida Keys
Posts: 799
Re: Hogfish

Kenny,
No matter how hard we try to reason the point is not being driven home. Too many divers and fishermen are only concerned with quantity.
Just a real shame that years ago when the spearfishermen asked for size limit increases nobody listened
Keysdivers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 09:56 AM   #9
Impaler Spearguns
Sponsor
 
Impaler Spearguns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: key west
Posts: 727
Re: Hogfish

the problem - (in my opinion) is that they are willing to pass laws without any science to back up what they say is a fact. It's like with the barracuda laws- a bunch of flats fisherman got together and lied through their teeth to say there weren't any more barracudas - and despite them having an obvious reason to lie (which they did)- the fwc took their word for it and without any study whatsoever - passed a bunch of laws.
When we went to the meeting they had a big xhart up that told statistics- and it was 95% of the barracuda taken were taken by recreational divers- not commercial. Yett eh entire meeting - every one of those lazy bum flats guys - stood up and said that the commercial guys were ruining the fishery. Totally ignoring the big ass chart that was right in front of them clearly stating that 95% was taken by recreational fishing.
SO - guess what their answer was? - you guessed it- they effectively ended commercial barracuda fishing by passing laws that made it useless and non profitable to shoot them commercially.
This whole fiasco was about the vandenberg and the fisherman being mad that they had pressure on the spot that they can go without burning any gas. Every fishhermsn knows there are thousands of cudas out west on the towers and at the shoals- but they didn't want to burn the gas - so they lied and now we have these ridiculously heavy handed laws.
I wonder if any studies were done on the hogfish or did they just ask a few fisherman what they thought and ran with that?
Most of us locals know it's lobster mini season that kills most of the baby hogs- but they will selectively ignore that info.
The limit should have gone to 14" and have a bag limit that is realiistic- one per diver is crazy and i doubt it had any basis in science and was likely created by rod and reel fisherman who hate us soearos
__________________
Impaler Spearguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 12:56 PM   #10
100days-a-year
Seafood Sifu
 
100days-a-year's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jax Fla
Age: 53
Posts: 3,702
Re: Hogfish

He oyster way to know how they operate is to get inside.Go to the meetings,sit on acommitee,review the data and help wherever possible to give them an accurate assessment.TheFWC may e like a kangaroo court but the Council sat least attempt to fully vet data.They may have a few red snapper scenarios but over the last few years they've given back fish and increased some limits.Notperfect but it's what we have to deal with.
100days-a-year is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2016, 12:56 PM   #11
kmoose
Team Headhunter
 
kmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slowcala, FL
Age: 52
Posts: 3,817
Re: Hogfish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impaler Spearguns View Post
Most of us locals know it's lobster mini season that kills most of the baby hogs- but they will selectively ignore that info.
Doesn't the new restrictions help reduce the mini season mass hog killing? How is it ignored?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impaler Spearguns View Post
The limit should have gone to 14" and have a bag limit that is realiistic- one per diver is crazy and i doubt it had any basis in science and was likely created by rod and reel fisherman who hate us soearos
What basis of science are you using to make your recommendations and why is yours any different than theirs?

You know that if a size and take restriction is not chosen the alternative will be an MPA... I believe there is considerable Federal interest in making the whole Keys an MPA like Pennekamp. The state not taking action preemptively as it has would certainly help grease the skids to make that happen.
__________________
The Moose is Loose !
"SUPER SPORTY"

Last edited by kmoose; 11-23-2016 at 01:22 PM.
kmoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 10:02 AM   #12
kywestfreediver
Registered User
 
kywestfreediver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Key West
Posts: 892
Send a message via AIM to kywestfreediver
Re: Hogfish

I can only speak on my experience here in the keys, but here is what is wrong with this new law..

Hogfish are still everywhere down here, they are just smaller.. In my opinion they fixed the over fishing by raising the size limit alone, maybe reduce bag limit to 3 and give the commercial sector a legitimate trip limit of something like 100 pounds. Every patch reef i dive on the south side has schools of 30 hogfish, but they are all 8-12 inches.. So in my opinion it's not a numbers issue, it's a size issue. Once you raise the size to 16" (which we have all wanted for years) you get more breeding cycles for all these fish that are under 16" and the stock stays healthy. No reason to make it 1 fish per person and 25 pounds commercial. When we do a 80 mile run to dive commercial we will be limited out with 3 fish and will have to pass on the normal 100 pounds that we normally average on the trip.
kywestfreediver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 10:05 AM   #13
kywestfreediver
Registered User
 
kywestfreediver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Key West
Posts: 892
Send a message via AIM to kywestfreediver
Re: Hogfish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impaler Spearguns View Post
the problem - (in my opinion) is that they are willing to pass laws without any science to back up what they say is a fact. It's like with the barracuda laws- a bunch of flats fisherman got together and lied through their teeth to say there weren't any more barracudas - and despite them having an obvious reason to lie (which they did)- the fwc took their word for it and without any study whatsoever - passed a bunch of laws.
The barracuda law is even a bigger pile of shit.. They just added a slot limit for barracuda, but allow one over slot fish for "trophy fishing". Why on earth would you allow people to kill a fish just for trophy purposes if the fish stock is in such danger??? Let alone when you won't let people kill them to sell for food purposes..
kywestfreediver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 10:56 AM   #14
ny_er
Registered User
 
ny_er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Key West
Posts: 2,685
Re: Hogfish

Quote:
Originally Posted by kywestfreediver View Post
The barracuda law is even a bigger pile of shit.. They just added a slot limit for barracuda, but allow one over slot fish for "trophy fishing". Why on earth would you allow people to kill a fish just for trophy purposes if the fish stock is in such danger??? Let alone when you won't let people kill them to sell for food purposes..
I went to that meeting asked why they should be killing such an endangered fish for mounts, they didn't really have an answer but the FWC people said we take all uses of fish into consideration.

All these flats guys stood up and said that the cudas were all gone, it was an emergency.

Me and that guy who trolls the gulf were the only non-charter guys there.

I went to the hog meeting as well and in order to make their numbers work based on catch history in order to get the limit down they said they needed to make the comm limit 25#

The TAC or whatever is really low so it will close commercially really fast, if they didn't have the trip limit it might close is like a few weeks if a bunch of people go to the tortugas
__________________
ny_er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2016, 08:30 AM   #15
slowboat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Key West
Posts: 264
Re: Hogfish

Hogfish Closed Recreationally Now , as of Wednesday.

Happy ? This is what cooperating with FWC biologists and fish counters will get you .

They count or survey your catch , extrapolate that number with an algebraic logarithm,

take that number , speculate how many people might have gone fishing and come up

with a estimate that is wildly assumptive and shut down the fishery based on inaccurate

information. That is why after Wednesday , recreational hogfish will be shut down .

NEVER let them survey or count your catch , you are only shooting yourself in the foot.

They will take your information , skew , distort , and lie . Then you get 10 years of no

harvest , the bean counter who talked to you on the dock still gets paid , by your taxes

while you get yanked.

Don't bitch about it here , contact FWC Commissioners @ myfwc .com ,

contact Jessica McCawley , head of fisheries management also.

demand accurate fish counts , not the speculative , random , guesses they use now.

Time for me to get the boat , ice it and harvest ; later.
slowboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com