Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > General Topics (Non-regional) > Spearfishing Regulations

Spearfishing Regulations This area is for the topic of existing or proposed Spearfishing Regulations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 23 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 03-31-2014, 08:06 AM   #1
njdiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 815
Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

A proposed rule was recently filed and the public comment period of thirty days past, that may cause all diving on any military or government connected “sunken military craft” to require a permit from the Naval History and Heritage Command. This proposed rule slipped under our “radar” in the Department of Defense section of the Federal Register back in January. A gentleman with Wreck Diver magazine however did catch it and made the rounds at Beneath the Sea this weekend. He has compiled a few documents that explain what is being done by this rule and what can be done to halt the process to give more time for those affected by it to respond. If you would like a copy of these documents please email me. I have included several of the online available documents and other resources below.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014...2013-31068.pdf

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online...tary_craft.pdf

http://csc.noaa.gov/data/Documents/O...raft%20Act.pdf

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-12a.htm

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...cted-at-sunken

http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/fil...er%2013563.pdf

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/...ILITY%20ACT%22
__________________
Rather be diving!
njdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 09:08 AM   #2
SpearMax
Forum Administrator
 
SpearMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdiver View Post
A proposed rule was recently filed and the public comment period of thirty days past, that may cause all diving on any military or government connected “sunken military craft” to require a permit from the Naval History and Heritage Command. This proposed rule slipped under our “radar” in the Department of Defense section of the Federal Register back in January. A gentleman with Wreck Diver magazine however did catch it and made the rounds at Beneath the Sea this weekend. He has compiled a few documents that explain what is being done by this rule and what can be done to halt the process to give more time for those affected by it to respond.
Wow. Restricting the ability to dive military wrecks through permitting would have a potentially huge impact on the dive industry in certain areas. If they tried to slip it past the public with minimal input, that is terrible. Thanks for sharing and please keep this community informed.
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
SpearMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 09:34 AM   #3
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 62
Posts: 3,358
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Why whats wrong with it, you cant walk into a strangers house without permission? Why should you be able to poke around somebody else's property without a proper permit?
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 10:42 AM   #4
njdiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 815
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
Why whats wrong with it, you cant walk into a strangers house without permission? Why should you be able to poke around somebody else's property without a proper permit?
The Sunken Military Craft Act already protects the sites from poking. This proposed rule would require a permit, including a fee, to just visit the site. There is no exemption for divers in the proposed regulation.
__________________
Rather be diving!
njdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 10:57 AM   #5
SpearMax
Forum Administrator
 
SpearMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdiver View Post
The Sunken Military Craft Act already protects the sites from poking. This proposed rule would require a permit, including a fee, to just visit the site. There is no exemption for divers in the proposed regulation.
Will you list a few examples of famous dive sites that would be affected?
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
SpearMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 11:43 AM   #6
njdiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 815
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post
Will you list a few examples of famous dive sites that would be affected?
USS San Diego

Texas Tower

U.S.S. Murphy - DD-603

Sub Chaser SC-209

U.S.S. Turner - DD-648

U.S.S. Jacob Jones - DD-130

R.C. Mohawk

Sub Chaser SC-635 "Bronx Queen"

USS Akron - Airship ZR-4

ZPG-3W "Reliance"

http://njscuba.net/sites/site_warships.html#ZPG-3W


U.S.S. Bass - V-2 / SS-164

U.S.S. S-5 - SS-110

U.S.S. L-8 ( SS-48 )

U.S.S. G-2 ( SS-27 )

U.S.S. Spikefish ( SS-404 )

U.S.S. Blenny ( SS-324 )

http://njscuba.net/sites/site_submarines_1.html



U-550

U-853

U-869

http://njscuba.net/sites/site_submarines_2.html
__________________
Rather be diving!

Last edited by njdiver; 04-06-2014 at 12:23 PM.
njdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 11:45 AM   #7
SpearMax
Forum Administrator
 
SpearMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

I don't know the locations. Are any of them on your list or otherwise in Florida or California that could be affected?
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
SpearMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:12 PM   #8
njdiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 815
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post
I don't know the locations. Are any of them on your list or otherwise in Florida or California that could be affected?
All of the ones I referenced are in the NY, NJ CT area. Just click on the URLs.


TITLE XIV—SUNKEN MILITARY CRAFT

SEC. 1401. PRESERVATION OF TITLE TO SUNKEN MILITARY CRAFT
AND ASSOCIATED CONTENTS.

Right, title, and interest of the United States in and to any
United States sunken military craft—

(1) shall not be extinguished except by an express divestiture
of title by the United States; and

(2) shall not be extinguished by the passage of time, regardless
of when the sunken military craft sank.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online...tary_craft.pdf


Any "military craft" not sunk as an artificial reef.
__________________
Rather be diving!
njdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:57 PM   #9
SpearMax
Forum Administrator
 
SpearMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdiver View Post

Any "military craft" not sunk as an artificial reef.
So, a big tourist dive site like the Spiegel Grove in the Florida Keys would not be included.
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996
SpearMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 02:25 PM   #10
Keysdivers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Would The Wilkes Barre, Kendrick be included? Big O?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 02:48 PM   #11
aue-mike
Registered User
 
aue-mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 863
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdiver View Post
The Sunken Military Craft Act already protects the sites from poking. This proposed rule would require a permit, including a fee, to just visit the site. There is no exemption for divers in the proposed regulation.
INCORRECT. A permit would only be necessary for those wishing to engage in an activity that is already prohibited (i.e., "disturb, remove, or injure" a wreck) by the SMCA (established in October 2004).

Quote:
Non-intrusive activities including diving adjacent to or remotely documenting sites do not require a permit or authorization
Quite a bit of blind hysteria has been raised this past weekend. One fellow even said all wreck fishing would now be illegal as a result of these proposed regulations. Ignoring the fact that fishing is explicitly exempted in the SMCA.

I don't support the proposed regulations. But I also don't support spreading misinformation.

Mike
aue-mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:16 PM   #12
njdiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 815
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aue-mike View Post
INCORRECT. A permit would only be necessary for those wishing to engage in an activity that is already prohibited (i.e., "disturb, remove, or injure" a wreck) by the SMCA (established in October 2004).



Quite a bit of blind hysteria has been raised this past weekend. One fellow even said all wreck fishing would now be illegal as a result of these proposed regulations. Ignoring the fact that fishing is explicitly exempted in the SMCA.

I don't support the proposed regulations. But I also don't support spreading misinformation.

Mike
Did you notice that the location of the "Non-intrusive activities including diving adjacent to or remotely documenting sites do not require a permit or authorization from the NHHC though this does not preclude the obligation to obtain permits or other authorizations otherwise required by law." statement is in the Executive Summary, not the proposed regulation?

Did you also read the definitions of "Disturb or Disturbance" and "Injure or injury"? We will no longer be permitted to hook into any "military craft"!
__________________
Rather be diving!
njdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:23 PM   #13
SpearMax
Forum Administrator
 
SpearMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 16,466
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aue-mike View Post
INCORRECT. A permit would only be necessary for those wishing to engage in an activity that is already prohibited (i.e., "disturb, remove, or injure" a wreck) by the SMCA (established in October 2004).



Quite a bit of blind hysteria has been raised this past weekend. One fellow even said all wreck fishing would now be illegal as a result of these proposed regulations. Ignoring the fact that fishing is explicitly exempted in the SMCA.

I don't support the proposed regulations. But I also don't support spreading misinformation.

Mike
Mike, Thanks for your valuable insight on this issue.

I just called an archeologist friend of mine at the Navy and there is indeed some confusion by the public about what is going on.

Basically, they explained to me this regulatory measure details the process for applying for permits enabled by the SMCA Act law.

There is no prohibition on diving or requirement for a permit to dive these sites as you correctly stated. Divers still can't disturb the military wrecks without the permit already required by the Act.

For further information, readers can call the Navy staff at (202) 685-1073.

FYI, Tony
__________________
"Spearing is the path to enlightenment." --- Lao Tzu

“Live this day as if it will be your last. Remember that you will only find 'tomorrow' on the calendars of fools.”

---- Success Unlimited Author Og Mandino b.1923 - d.1996

Last edited by SpearMax; 03-31-2014 at 04:39 PM.
SpearMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:30 PM   #14
njdiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 815
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

A commercial dragger can obliterate a "military craft" wreck, yet a single diver can be fined up to $ 100,000.00. Why no written exemption for divers?
__________________
Rather be diving!
njdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 04:40 PM   #15
aue-mike
Registered User
 
aue-mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 863
Re: Is the US Navy banning diving on Military wrecks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdiver View Post
Did you also read the definitions of "Disturb or Disturbance" and "Injure or injury"? We will no longer be permitted to hook into any "military craft"!
You understand that is the same definition used in the original SMCA, promulgated in October 2004? How many dive boats do you know of that have been fined for hooking into a military craft over the past 10 years?

The intent of this permitting system is directed at commercial salvors. And I would not be surprised if there is also some retribution directed at NOAA for the whole MONITOR funding fiasco, as now they would have to jump through a lot of hoops and deal with a lot of oversight when doing any work on USN wrecks. But that is just speculation....
aue-mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com