Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > General Topics (Non-regional) > Technical Spearfishing

Technical Spearfishing Technical Scuba diving is generally defined as going deeper than 130 feet. You must have the proper training for this extreme aspect of spearfishing.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-16-2008, 09:12 PM   #1
Dawn Patrol
/._.\
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills
Age: 30
Posts: 1,291
nitrogen narcosis

has anyone here been narked? what are some tips oon avoiding it when diving with regular mixed air? also, is there any way of knowing if you are narked?
Dawn Patrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2008, 12:13 AM   #2
firefyterx
Registered User
 
firefyterx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sioux Falls SD / Port Charlotte Fl
Age: 66
Posts: 723
Send a message via AIM to firefyterx
Re: nitrogen narcosis

About everyone that has been scuba diving 100' or deeper have been narked. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It has little to do with size or age, although some are more susceptible to it than others or maybe just more aware of it. Some describe it as a similar feeling to being intoxicated. I believe its more of a kind of confusion. You just are not as sharp as you are normally. An instructor I once had made us do problems using the dive tables while at 100' and deeper and although I knew the tables well I did find it more difficult at depth. I'm 6'5" and 275lbs it has nothing to do with size. My wife is 5'8" and 120 lbs and was feeling about the same as I was. Now on an everyday basis I don't feel narked while at deep depths during normal dives. However when something goes wrong, when you start multi-tasking and you need to problem solve is when you notice you are not as sharp. The good thing is you only have to ascend a bit and the narcosis wanes. I guess my point is if you dive deep you will get narked weather you know it or not and you have to be able to deal with it by being a proficient diver. The more you know your equipment, know your self, know diving the better you will deal with it. Just have it in the back of your mind and when something goes wrong get back to your training and deal with one thing at a time and if possible ascend and regroup. I hope this helps.
__________________
'A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.' ........ Thomas Jefferson
firefyterx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2008, 02:52 PM   #3
abever
Registered User
 
abever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 89
Re: nitrogen narcosis

If you are ever diving fairly deep and find you have a big grin on your face for no reason your probably narked. If you are narked enough you can actually feel a little drunk, that's a cue it's time to head up some. In the early stages things you should be able to do just get a little harder, but you probably won't notice it unless you take the time to pause and try something that takes thought (like work dive tables) or dexterity (like open a combination lock).
abever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2008, 06:06 PM   #4
Dawn Patrol
/._.\
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills
Age: 30
Posts: 1,291
Re: nitrogen narcosis

or thread a take a fish off a spear and get the gun ready to shoot again?
Dawn Patrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 07:57 AM   #5
keezdiver
Resident Fish Biologist
 
keezdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: marathon florida
Age: 45
Posts: 4,345
Send a message via AIM to keezdiver
Re: nitrogen narcosis

my first real bad hit of narcosis was on a wreck here off marathon.

went down the bouy line in 3knt current...which was a workout
hit the deck of the wreck in 90ft panting and shot a hogfish...
chased the hogfish the length of the wreck in 90ft (sprinting) cause he was swiming away with my freeshaft..
followed the fish from the deck down to the sand in 120ft and lost sight of him..
shot a 2nd fish on the and seconds later.
ended up setting the gun down...and didn't realize it floated away.

i spun in circles with tunnel vision looking for the gun.

lost sight of the wreck and could have easily swam off into nothing.

luckily i realized the problem and relaxed, assended a bit and got my breathing under control.

never did find brian's gun
__________________
The Keys Best Anchor Bitch and Galley Slut!
...and favorite Devil's Advocate
Got a boat...but i'm too broke to pay attention!!
Accepting donations of beer, food, gas or numbers...for a ride
I'm a car fanatic...my web page with pics
keezdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 10:30 AM   #6
100days-a-year
Seafood Sifu
 
100days-a-year's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jax Fla
Age: 60
Posts: 3,808
Re: nitrogen narcosis

keez,good illustration of how a situation can snowball out of control.A little C02 can really throw narcosis into overdrive.
100days-a-year is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 10:40 AM   #7
Dawn Patrol
/._.\
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills
Age: 30
Posts: 1,291
Re: nitrogen narcosis

damn what a crappy dive. isnt the ocean floor under a rig pretty murky?
Dawn Patrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 11:00 AM   #8
keezdiver
Resident Fish Biologist
 
keezdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: marathon florida
Age: 45
Posts: 4,345
Send a message via AIM to keezdiver
Re: nitrogen narcosis

this was a wreck....not a rig.

vis was probably 40ft. i was far enough off the wreck on the sand when the shit hit the fan that i couldn't see it.

i was finally able to make out a VERY faint "shadow" in one direction...which luckly was the wreck.

i describe the narcosis as tunnel vision...feeling a bit nausious and having spots in your vision like a head rush....all at the same time and occuring within seconds.

i've gotten narced fighting fish in 80ft of water...same tunnel vision. it was all breath control....i was hyperventilating...and CO2 was building up at the same time. i litteraly kneeled on the sand and slowed my breaths down...then chased the fish and KILLED him with a bit of revenge.


on the other side of the coin....i've done dives in 145ft and had little or no affects of narcosis. most of those dives were in ZERO current...so it was not much work to actually do the dive. jump in the water...deflate BC...sink vertically onto the wreck.

you're body's condition...both physical and "that day" state...can have a big affect. being tired (physically), hung over (my fav ), hungry, tired, wired...ALL can affect how you react to the nitrogen.


i look at narcosis like alcohol. you're gonna feel it, it's how you react to it tht makes it safe or dangerous. if you experience it enough you'll learn how to control yourself when "under the influence".

for me...its like a drug....which is made better by a cold beer on the boat after the buzz (dive)


dive with me....not LIKE me
__________________
The Keys Best Anchor Bitch and Galley Slut!
...and favorite Devil's Advocate
Got a boat...but i'm too broke to pay attention!!
Accepting donations of beer, food, gas or numbers...for a ride
I'm a car fanatic...my web page with pics
keezdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2008, 11:27 AM   #9
peterv
Registered User
 
peterv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 271
Re: nitrogen narcosis

I'd agree with everything Keez wrote.

There are too many variables to accurately predict when & if you'll feel narcosis. Fatigue, chill, cardiovascular fitness, etc.
CO2 from exertion magnifies narcosis.
Yes, I've had the tunnel vision effect. In my case, narcosis = anxiety.

Don't dive deep air. Deep air is like drinking & driving, judgement and ability to identify and solve problems is eroded.
Nitrox helps a little. Avoid high pp02 on working/spearfishing dives.
Use a helium based mix if you MUST dive deep.
peterv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2008, 12:21 PM   #10
keezdiver
Resident Fish Biologist
 
keezdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: marathon florida
Age: 45
Posts: 4,345
Send a message via AIM to keezdiver
Re: nitrogen narcosis

i regularly spear on air in 120-150ft

for me i've noticed minimal advantage to nitrox at those depths...due to running a lean mix to avoid the dangerous side of nitrox.

and for me the bottom time issue isn't an issue...i just carryout my deco obligations instead.

deep diving air is definatly something you have to build up to, and be prepared for (hydrated, rested, warm etc).

for the SBO 06, we dove off the tortugas, first 2 dives of the trip were bounces down to 175ft on air..nothing more than al80s on our backs. AJ rodeos in 165ft is fun


all this being said....i'd like to point out that i am a great swimmer (town team and varsity for 5yrs), am almost 30, and i work out 2-5 days a week, and ride my bike 7miles to work several times a week (15-75miles total depending on how often), and i dive about 300 times a year.
so i'm in shape, qualified and comfortable....which helps.
__________________
The Keys Best Anchor Bitch and Galley Slut!
...and favorite Devil's Advocate
Got a boat...but i'm too broke to pay attention!!
Accepting donations of beer, food, gas or numbers...for a ride
I'm a car fanatic...my web page with pics
keezdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2008, 05:06 PM   #11
Teh Wicked
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL.
Posts: 571
Re: nitrogen narcosis

In my recent Nitrox class things like this was dicussed, I will share what i learned in hopes of a little clarification.

Nitrogen narcosis is basically a narcotic that is a byproduct of diving in deep depths. everyone that dives knows that nitrogen level increase the deeper you go, which in turn rasies your tissue level and blah blah blah. we all know this and why it happens.

Now the aggrivating factors a quite a few things. Hydration is the main one, but lots of things can cause you to be narked more than others. over weight, drinking the night before, eating habits, metabolism. all the common thing you should hav elearned in basic open water class.

nitrox benefits getting narked simply because your lowering the level of nitrogen in the air your breathing. if there is less nitrogen its common physic's yor nothing going to elevated your nitorgen tissue absorbtion and the narcosis should not happen as easly or easily. NOW, saying that doesnt mean you cannot get narked by using Nitrox, but it does help. some of us it helps alot, some of it helps very little. every person is different and should dive enough to know what there body can handle, how they react and know your limits.

me personally I know when im narked, I can feel it and I can tell when im narked. I dont get narked till im a bit deeper than most people because of my body size. im 6 ft 5inches tall, 230lbs and in pretty good shape. so i can hit about 115' on air before getting to that point where im nto so clear headed anymore. Nitrox I have yet to dive that deep but I will soonand im hoping 130fsw is attainable and still be pretty calm minded.

but when you shoot that 50lb groupa, or 70lb AJ and start batteling your effects are going to come faster, stronger and sooner. your breathing harder so your going to produce more nitrogen faster. common sense...

Now get out there and dive and have fun!!!
Teh Wicked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2008, 08:48 PM   #12
Dawn Patrol
/._.\
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills
Age: 30
Posts: 1,291
Re: nitrogen narcosis

hey im from socal so i dont know much about deep diving. whats diving on nitrox like? what is nitrox?
Dawn Patrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2008, 09:47 PM   #13
KEYSKILLER
Your Daddy
 
KEYSKILLER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lower Florida Keys
Posts: 2,529
Re: nitrogen narcosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by peace&diving View Post
hey im from socal so i dont know much about deep diving. whats diving on nitrox like? what is nitrox?
Enriched Air Nitrox
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Nitrox)
Jump to: navigation, search
Nitrox refers to any gas mixture composed (excluding trace gases) of nitrogen and oxygen; this includes normal air which is approximately 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen, with around 1% inert gases, primarily argon. The most common use of nitrox mixtures containing higher than normal levels of oxygen is in SCUBA diving where the reduced percentage of nitrogen is advantageous in reducing nitrogen take up in the body's tissues and so extending the possible dive time and/or reducing the risk of decompression sickness (also known as the bends).

as for being narked used to not bother me, it was always there for me past 170ft and almost managable for me at 200ft. this is short bounce dives w/steel 120's, jacked over 4000lbs.(air)
after JLB passed last year have given up deep diving and hung up my twins. there is nothing at the bottom worth your life.
if you must see whats at the bottom, and we have all been there, look into mixed gas.
tread lightly you do not want a one way trip.
__________________
REST IN PEACE : JOHNNYLONGBLADES 09/13/83-07/08/07**JLB WE WILL HUNT AGAIN IN CRYSTAL CLEAR WATER WITH 100LB GROUPER**

Last edited by KEYSKILLER; 02-22-2008 at 09:58 PM.
KEYSKILLER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2008, 11:10 AM   #14
GUNNY
Registered User
 
GUNNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tarpon Springs FL
Age: 54
Posts: 285
Re: nitrogen narcosis

I did a 130 foot dive while in dive school in Panama City and felt zero effects,
Chasing a grouper down a ledge in 95 foot,, I got narked out of my skull!
I agree there are a lot of factors that go into it
__________________
o damn
GUNNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 03:51 PM   #15
BobK
Registered User
 
BobK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cocoa Beach
Posts: 486
Re: nitrogen narcosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh Wicked View Post
nitrox benefits getting narked simply because your lowering the level of nitrogen in the air your breathing. if there is less nitrogen its common physic's yor nothing going to elevated your nitorgen tissue absorbtion and the narcosis should not happen as easly or easily.
Many divers think that oxygen is actually more narcotic then nitrogen. I, personally, have never noticed any narcosis advantage with a Nitrox mix. But put 15 - 20% helium in the mix and there is a big difference, at least for me. YMMV.
__________________
Bob K
BobK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com