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Old 11-30-2007, 12:32 AM   #46
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
Sorry I was not making myself clear. I was hoping that you were really only kidding.

However, it appears to me (based only upon the information that you have provided within this thread) that you don't know much about diving with jewfish.

It also seems evident that you have only seen a few and that you were scared by a moderately sized one that came near you on a particular occasion.

To me, you sound like a big pussy. Is that clear?

With regard to the question about Walt Sterns, it really doesn't matter what he has said or written; I do not think it is appropriate to accuse him of being a poacher and criminal unless there is some evidence to support the accusation. Sometimes it seems that people are attacked personally because their opinion is not popular.

Is that clear?
Like I said, you're a bi man on the internet. Loser.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:20 AM   #47
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Smile Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Originally Posted by DECO View Post
Tony you are spot on.
I am a bit surprised this was missed.

"I found this post from Hogsniper in another forum and thought it would be appropriate here. In reality this issue effects us all"

The post made several refrences to spearos comments being taken out of context. Plus it made a very boring day more interesting. My appologies for the lack of quotations. I also did't want to mention where I pulled this from. I am sure you guys can figure it out. It was a matter of respect.
Thanks Deco for the clarification. But, nobody missed your source reference. The author has been known to launch conspiracy theories attacking the character of certain individuals with no basis in fact. You brought the theory/allegation on this board and expanded it a bit with the photo op angle (maybe we should find a photo witness and ask them). JFJF challenged the truthfulness of the conspiracy theory and Roger Relapse is vainly trying to defend the conspiracy theory with little traction. Makes for an interesting day as you say. Peace bro, Tony
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:22 AM   #48
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

Isn't calling someone a pussy several times a personal attack?

Especially this coming from a moderator?
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:27 AM   #49
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Talking Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Isn't calling someone a pussy several times a personal attack?

Especially this coming from a moderator?
I guess you missed the several green smilies and the joke aspect of the exchanges between me and my friend relapse. Read the rules of engagement and realize poking fun is allowed. Here is the definition from the personal attack policy:

2.) DEFINITION OF PERSONAL ATTACK – Heated discussion is only human and there are many instances when a Spearboard discussion gets personal. Hopefully, the parties will eventually apologize to each other and move on. We encourage you to clean up such messes yourself through your self-edit software controls so that moderators do not have to do it for you. Defining a personal attack is like that famous definition of porn: “I know it when I see it.” Therefore, the definition will have to remain fuzzy and subject to the judgment of the moderators. Joking, Razzing, Whining, Crying, Wimpering, Howling, Screeching, Clowning, Jeering, Sneering, Taunting, Tormenting and many other forms of free speech are certainly allowed here. But, keep in mind you are on a public discussion forum and try not to let the heat rise to the level where others will perceive your posting as a personal attack. This policy also applies to avatars and signatures, as well as personal attacks on individuals inside or outside the Spearboard Community.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:48 AM   #50
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
If they were to allow a limited harvest, I would much prefer it be done by the hook and liners. We get enough bad press as it is. I can just see it now, front page pictures of GGs center punched with 36" JBL guns in tow. It's a bad idea and I don't want any part of it.
Makes sense. no need to fuel the enviros agin our ways.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:03 AM   #51
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Isn't calling someone a pussy several times a personal attack?

Especially this coming from a moderator?
His mods are only held to the rules when it benefits him. So, I guess I can call anyone a pussy if I want? OK Ronald, then so are you for not doin the right thing and trying to spin things back in control when you are both wrong AGAIN.

You just can't stand it when someone out wits you and your buddy. You really need this bully pulpit to make you feel better about yourself. Didn't your mother love you?
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:04 AM   #52
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

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His mods are only held to the rules when it benefits him. So, I guess I can call anyone a pussy if I want? OK Ronald, then so are you for not doin the right thing and trying to spin things back in control when you are both wrong AGAIN.

You just can't stand it when someone out wits you and your buddy. You really need this bully pulpit to make you feel better about yourself. Didn't your mother love you?
Muuuaaaaaaahahahahahahha
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:17 AM   #53
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

should them jewfish be opened up to spear or rod only?
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:22 AM   #54
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

I have conflicting feelings on this issue. I totally agree with Moose that there is a huge potential for bad PR with regard to spearfishing when diver-wounded fish are photographed. On the other hand, as a matter of principal, I think we should stand up for our rights as spearfisherman and argue against gear limitations which are discriminatory against spearfishing.

I also think that IF divers are ever allowed to take jewfish again, that their behavior might tend to revert back to what is was before the ban, i.e., the GG will again become skittish of divers and not associate them with food. This could result in less negative interactions between spearfisherman and GG since they might no longer be trying to take fish off stingers or off of shafts. Although to be honest, if a season was opened for only say 3 weeks, I wonder if the GG would really “remember” to avoid divers for the entire “off” season.

In any regard, I think it is very important that the State of Florida quickly throw some money at the issue in an attempt to get some good data on GG abundance.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:24 AM   #55
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Originally Posted by LASpearo View Post
should them jewfish be opened up to spear or rod only?

Relapse must have had one.

There is an ignore button.

Good question - while I would like to spear any fish that is made legal to do so, I do see KMoose's perspective that it might be a bad PR move for the community. The newspapers and TV stations might pick up on it and really cast a negative light on the sport which as we know is the most ecologically friendly take method.
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:21 AM   #56
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

"I also think that IF divers are ever allowed to take jewfish again, that their behavior might tend to revert back to what is was before the ban"

honestly...i'm not sure that's true.

aversion to divers/spearos is as much species specific personality, as it is learned fear.
perfect example:
black grouper compared to red grouper. reds are highly hunted yet they are like puppy dogs. even the big ones will approach closely and will often stay a few feet away and watch you. while even small black grouper...MUCH smaller than anything that could be harvested...are skitish towards divers.

another one is the hogfish...highly sought after, yet dumb as a fence post.

now i've dove areas that have been offlimits to fishing/spearing...even diving period...for a decade (riley's hump...dry tortugas), and the larger blacks (~50lbs) are much less skitish. but i think that is due to total lack of human interaction.


so the GG may be naturallly more comfortable around divers. obviously their size makes that easier to imagine. there is only so much fear you have for another animal that is 1/2 your size.

and even if they "learned"....how long would it take? with as friendly as they are, i can't imagine many fish being stalked...shot at...and NOT collected.

hard to say
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:51 AM   #57
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Cool Re: goliath grouper opening day

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Originally Posted by keezdiver View Post
"I also think that IF divers are ever allowed to take jewfish again, that their behavior might tend to revert back to what is was before the ban"

honestly...i'm not sure that's true.

aversion to divers/spearos is as much species specific personality, as it is learned fear.
perfect example:
black grouper compared to red grouper. reds are highly hunted yet they are like puppy dogs. even the big ones will approach closely and will often stay a few feet away and watch you. while even small black grouper...MUCH smaller than anything that could be harvested...are skitish towards divers.

another one is the hogfish...highly sought after, yet dumb as a fence post.

now i've dove areas that have been offlimits to fishing/spearing...even diving period...for a decade (riley's hump...dry tortugas), and the larger blacks (~50lbs) are much less skitish. but i think that is due to total lack of human interaction.


so the GG may be naturallly more comfortable around divers. obviously their size makes that easier to imagine. there is only so much fear you have for another animal that is 1/2 your size.

and even if they "learned"....how long would it take? with as friendly as they are, i can't imagine many fish being stalked...shot at...and NOT collected.

hard to say

Good point Jeff,

I guess it is species dependent. I notice significant learning behavior on gags just a short while after a few have been speared. There are some that argue we should not be allowed to target gag in large groups when they come in, but I say BS to that because they get skittish fast and harder and harder to get from my years of experience.
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:33 AM   #58
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

In our neck of the woods where harvesting them is legal,they seem to reappear every year when the rains begin.For instance,at the spots I freedive (wrecks in 35fsw,oil rigs 60 fsw). When we take out the resident grouper(s) another set make their appearance the next year.
If we happen to wound one that fish becomes very skittish at the sight of a hunter, otherwise they are easily approached.Btw they are a prized food fish here.
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:38 AM   #59
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

Quote:
Originally Posted by keezdiver View Post
"I also think that IF divers are ever allowed to take jewfish again, that their behavior might tend to revert back to what is was before the ban"

honestly...i'm not sure that's true.

aversion to divers/spearos is as much species specific personality, as it is learned fear.
perfect example:
black grouper compared to red grouper. reds are highly hunted yet they are like puppy dogs. even the big ones will approach closely and will often stay a few feet away and watch you. while even small black grouper...MUCH smaller than anything that could be harvested...are skitish towards divers.

another one is the hogfish...highly sought after, yet dumb as a fence post.

now i've dove areas that have been offlimits to fishing/spearing...even diving period...for a decade (riley's hump...dry tortugas), and the larger blacks (~50lbs) are much less skitish. but i think that is due to total lack of human interaction.


so the GG may be naturallly more comfortable around divers. obviously their size makes that easier to imagine. there is only so much fear you have for another animal that is 1/2 your size.

and even if they "learned"....how long would it take? with as friendly as they are, i can't imagine many fish being stalked...shot at...and NOT collected.

hard to say
I'm not sure myself, but 15 years ago the GG were much more skittish, even the large ones. Even now, it has been my experience that GG that are located in areas that are not dove much, pretty much take one look at you and then hide in their holes. Conversely, on popular wrecks, these fish form aggregations and seem fearless, they've learned to associate divers with food and will quite often invade your personal space.

I have never shot large GG, so I have no personal experience to rely upon, but I don't share your apparent confidence that once a GG is shot with a spear, that landing it is "a gimme". Another big potential drawback of allowing divers to again take GG will be the significant possibility that overly enthusiastic divers will be injured or killed.

I know one old timer very well who has speared hundreds and hundreds of them. He tells a story about when he sent a shaft into the head of a relatively small GG when in a confined space within a wreck. With only one escape route, and the visibility blacked out, the fish charged him sending the butt end of the shaft through his mask and burried it deep under his scalp, barely missing his eye socket.

I know how much trouble a 30 lb AJ can give me, I'm sure a 300 lb jewfish could turn me into a golfer if the shot was not perfect.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:04 PM   #60
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Re: goliath grouper opening day

point taken on the....."not a gimme"

i was looking at it from the standpoint of being able to get within one shaft length of them. making accuracy issues a bit easier to handle. although shot placement is still CRUCIAL.

with more thought....thats another reason they may not allow spearing on GG. the wounding rate may be pretty high....and worse...the wounding resulting in mortality.
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