Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > Spearfishing Gear > All About Guns

All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-03-2021, 07:45 PM   #166
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,245
Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

A roller contact diagram.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	roller contact.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	50.4 KB
ID:	247132  
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2021, 02:08 AM   #167
spearq8
Registered User
 
spearq8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,292
Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Unfortunately it does seem that you have one of the bad triggers. These 8mm shaft sears were cut with laser ... at 8mm lasers just don't cut straight through metal and will tend to taper a tiny bit. This tiny bit is not straight enough to ensure the tolerances required with a double roller trigger IMHO. With EDM you get 10x better precision as well as absolute straight cut. The maximum good cut with laser is maybe 6mm, but even then I would want to make the hole smaller and then ream it with a reamer to ensure perfect hole tolerance. You can improve the tolerance by simply reaming the hole to the next larger diameter hole size you can easily find a pin for. My guess is your laser cut holes are 4mm so maybe next size up would be 5mm. This would straighten out things quite a bit.

I think after your trigger batch was where Mario ditched laser cutting altogether and switched all his cuts to EDM. This allowed thicker shaft sears (10mm) and of course bigger front roller, with a 10x tighter tolerance. The latest triggers have gone one step further and are now MIM (metal injection molded) for the shaft sear and the trigger sear as well as the line release (rounded edges with to avoid shooting line damage). Also on the latest version of the trigger Mario has finally invested in custom molds that allow the mechanism box to have lateral holes punched as the mechanism is held in place in a mold. This ensures that the box left and right holes are perfectly lateral. I guess everything evolves and improves with incremental minor changes. I will see if I can put some pix of the latest version. The design is basically the same but the materials and tolerances are finally high enough for perfect function without having to tinker with the trigger.
spearq8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2021, 05:37 PM   #168
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,245
Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Even loaded up the sear lever does not align longitudinally and rocking it laterally does not straighten it up either, so I doubt a tapered bore is responsible for the misalignment created by the pivot hole. If these holes had been drilled using a jig then they would be perpendicular. I am really surprised these were offered for sale as offsetting the nose roller's pivot pin to avoid it scraping the housing wall shows they knew that something was not right. There must be a lot more like mine.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2021, 01:40 AM   #169
spearq8
Registered User
 
spearq8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,292
Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Even loaded up the sear lever does not align longitudinally and rocking it laterally does not straighten it up either, so I doubt a tapered bore is responsible for the misalignment created by the pivot hole. If these holes had been drilled using a jig then they would be perpendicular. I am really surprised these were offered for sale as offsetting the nose roller's pivot pin to avoid it scraping the housing wall shows they knew that something was not right. There must be a lot more like mine.
Take a look inside the hole of the sear and you should be able to tell if it was reamed or is straight out of laser cutting. Reamed holes are shiny and smooth while laser cutting is not smooth and might even be jagged. Of course you would have to look at that under magnification. If the hole is not reamed then for sure reaming will fix things provided it is done properly. Put the pin in and observe each side to see if one side is slightly larger than the other side (again under magnification). If you decide to ream the hole then ream from the smaller side. Actually even with a good drill bit and some cutting oil and a good bench drill (on low rotation speed) you can make a decent hole that gives good hole finish. Not as good as a reamer but it will dramatically improve things. Reamers can be quite expensive and might not make sense to make just one or two holes ... but they will give that perfect tolerance that ensures sear stays centered and sure super smooth rotation.
spearq8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2021, 02:00 AM   #170
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,245
Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
Take a look inside the hole of the sear and you should be able to tell if it was reamed or is straight out of laser cutting. Reamed holes are shiny and smooth while laser cutting is not smooth and might even be jagged. Of course you would have to look at that under magnification. If the hole is not reamed then for sure reaming will fix things provided it is done properly. Put the pin in and observe each side to see if one side is slightly larger than the other side (again under magnification). If you decide to ream the hole then ream from the smaller side. Actually even with a good drill bit and some cutting oil and a good bench drill (on low rotation speed) you can make a decent hole that gives good hole finish. Not as good as a reamer but it will dramatically improve things. Reamers can be quite expensive and might not make sense to make just one or two holes ... but they will give that perfect tolerance that ensures sear stays centered and sure super smooth rotation.
Well I have not knocked the pins out and I am not going to bother, the mech was only purchased to check it out, but it cost 80 bucks shipped so should have been better.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2021, 12:47 AM   #171
spearq8
Registered User
 
spearq8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,292
Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Well I have not knocked the pins out and I am not going to bother, the mech was only purchased to check it out, but it cost 80 bucks shipped so should have been better.
I agree 100% with that! The double roller design is actually excellent, but it needs higher manufacturing tolerances for things to work as designed. To do that would mean you have to invest quite a lot of money to improve your manufacturing and tooling ... or otherwise hand tune every single trigger. I have yet to see a problematic double roller trigger that I was not able to get to work perfectly ... and the solution was always to tighten the tolerances and get it to within the design drawings (more than 100 triggers). With the old DR Long triggers it is usually about 5 minutes work to get it to work perfectly and I am disappointed and I think he should have added that extra step before shipping out any of those triggers. Fortunately Mario (owner of Ermessub) did finally invest quite a lot of money to tighten things up and the latest generation of the DR trigger is up to specs. and works perfectly without any tinkering. I would still stay away from the Pathos versions of the DR triggers as those still need to be tinkered with to get them to work perfectly.

Last edited by spearq8; 07-09-2021 at 01:01 AM.
spearq8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34 PM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com