MAKO and Wong: Reels, Shafts & Tips

[Hank49]

Originally Posted by Rob Allen

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Finally, everyone has to admit that to a greater or lesser degree they stand on another designer’s shoulders. Most manufacturers would have to say a word of thanks to guys like Rene Cavalero and Hugues Dessault.

Or even take it back to the Middle Ages and give credit to the guy who invented the Cross bow. The only real innovation since then that went into spearguns was the rubber bands....and reels I guess.

It's not rocket science. Now, for most anyway, it's all about quality. Does it hold up? Same with wetsuits, floppers, masks etc etc.

But I am happy that there are so many choices. That's always a good thing. competition makes for better stuff. Thanks to all of you.

[OutdoorCatholic]

Originally Posted by Chuuken

Maybe I have poor reading comprehension, but I have been back and forth through this thread and I'm still not sure what, exactly, the "issue" is.

My interpretation of the situation: Two different guys claim to have independently found a shaft manufacturer who could make good spears. Said manufacturer was used by Wong but Mako found Wong's source and negotiated a better price by buying in bulk. Said manufacturer was playing the field and reselling goods and designs to various competitors to the chagrin of Wong since he felt that it was unfair that his designs were being used as he had refined the product to his specs in cooperation with the company. Various claims around the forums point out particular designs of Mako (including but not limited to shafts and bands) that appear identical or very similar to other companies, and Dano comes to the defense of his company, saying that all he is doing is buying from the same companies, purchasing an existing product and not ripping off anyone's design. The secondary implication here is that even if Mako was ripping off designs, without a patent there is no legal recourse to follow, and a common competitive tactic is to let your competitor do the leg work of finding a good manufacturer and then getting some insider info and using them yourself (hece why almost all consumer electronics are made in a couple factories in China). Rob Allen enters the discussion and claims that it's obvious that competitors (likely Mako) obviously use their designs but Allen feels that their quality and cutting edge R&D give them a competitive advantage, also admitting that even his company owes a debt to the designs and experimentation of those who came before them. Without the money or legal stomach to deal with the patent system, and the enforcement and defense of their designs therein, the ultimate reality is that companies will use whatever they can to gain a competitive advantage, whether that's custom, handmade products with excellent service (Wong), cutting edge R&D, brand strength, and customer service (Allen), or factory model bulk manufacturing of existing designs with excellent customer service (Mako). None of these guys will say these things directly as they don't want to alienate and/or cause too much division in the community and possibly hurt their image accordingly. This situation is not unique to spearfishing as the same things happen in the paintball and bike industries too (as examples).

[pernicia]

Thanks for the clarification.

I had a Mako 130 before that I honestly loved the rubbers...later I purchased RA rubber from FL Freedivers and they seemed similar, however to my eye the blue shades were different and the amber rubber inside the mako is not as dark as RA. Both great bands! That is the main reason I asked.

Originally Posted by MAKO Spearguns

Hey Pernicia,

Regarding the RA and MAKO latex tubing, to my understanding we both get our rubber from Primeline. It is really the best latex tubing available, so it is no surprise that RA would offer it.

When I first launched MAKO, I bought all my shafts from RA. Mike Damms, as you all know, was the RA importer and owner of Florida Freedivers, so I developed a very strong relationship with Mike. At that time, the shafts that Rob made for me had no name on the floppers. However, there were a few times when I was running low on shafts so Mike would send to me shafts with “Rob Allan” stamped on the floppers to hold me over until the larger shipment (with blank floppers) arrived. They are great shafts, and given the outstanding reputation of RA, it was actually a plus having their name on the floppers.

Back then, I also ran out of rubber once or twice and Mike would send some to hold me over until my large order from Primeline arrived. I recall one time needing 16mm blue so I called Mike. When I called, his lovely wife, Cheryl, who we all love and adore, answered. I told her I needed some blue 16 from Primeline to hold me over for a few days. I assumed “blue 16 from Primeline” was just that, “blue 16 from Primeline”. But apparently, it wasn’t. I did not know there were different shades of blue produced by Primeline. Cheryl asked me if I planned on putting the blue tubing on any MAKO guns. I told her that was my intent. She then told me that the specific shade of blue tubing that she sold (Primeline) was for RA guns only and preferred that I not use it on my guns. Obviously, I just waited for the shipment of my shade of blue to arrive.

Hey Marco,
My blue has an amber core and my black is all black.

Hope this helps.
Dive safe,
dano

[MAKO Spearguns]

Hey Chuuken,
Very well put.

Hey Rob Allen,
Also very well put. I wish you had chimed in earlier. I thought it was common knowledge that we both get our latex tubing from Primeline Industries. Thanks for confirming!

If any of you have not heard of Primeline, “Primeline Latex Tubing” is the best in the world which is obviously why Rob and I both use it on our guns.

Dive safe,
dano

[lidiver]

Originally Posted by MAKO Spearguns

Hey Chuuken,
Very well put.

Hey Rob Allen,
Also very well put. I wish you had chimed in earlier. I thought it was common knowledge that we both get our latex tubing from Primeline Industries. Thanks for confirming!

If any of you have not heard of Primeline, “Primeline Latex Tubing” is the best in the world which is obviously why Rob and I both use it on our guns.

Dive safe,
dano

I believe that some European manufacturers use a different rubber, superior to prime line. When you are saying that prime line is the best in the world, do you have the data to compare it it the rubber use by let's say immersion or dessault?
Stefan

[MAKO Spearguns]

Hey Pernicia,
Thank you for your explaination. And, thanks for your support. You are absolutely correct. It is the same latex tubing.

The latex sold by MAKO is a lighter blue and it is called “Primeline latex tubing”. The latex sold by RA is a darker blue and they call it “Rob Allan latex tubing”.

Weather you buy it from MAKO, or RA, you will get high quality latex tubing. RA is certainly a great company and I like to think that MAKO is also a great company. And it is safe to say, both companies provide excellent customer service.


Hey OutdoorCatholic,
You are partly right. However, with all due respect, I need to correct a couple things.

Regarding the shafts, please allow me to correct your first sentence.
Please refer to my post (#42)
Please refer to Mike Damms post (#44)
Please refer to Griswold post (#61)

To make it easy, I will abbreviate as follows:
It was custom gun builder, Chad Morris (Griswold) who developed the spears that I sell. Once the shafts were perfected, he essentially said to me, “Dano, call this guy. This is the guy who can make my shafts”.

The shaft maker incurred all expenses in producing the prototypes to the final product. The shaft maker then started selling these shafts to MAKO, Mike Dams of Florida Freedivers and Daryl Wong (not sure of the order, nor does it matter since none of us incurred the costs to make them).

These shafts are now benefiting several more companies and thousands of spearos. And, Griswold did not ask for anything in return. You can tell by his post (#61) that he respects all persons involved and even went out of his way to suggest that Daryl could have been working with the factory as well. In short, he would rather spearfish than get involved in drama, as most of us would.


Regarding your other statement, I don’t see how RA was speaking about MAKO.

To his credit, RA is a smart guy and knows the MAKO gun and the Rabitech guns are the same guns which have been on the market for almost 10 years now.

MAKO was issued a license to sell the same gun under the MAKO name 4 years ago.

So, after 10 years on the market, he certainly is not implying that MAKO or Rabitech copied the RA gun. They don’t even look alike. Just a quick glance will show that the MAKO gun has a loading butt and the RA gun does not.

Additionally, as I said before, when I first launched MAKO about 4 years ago, I bought all my spears from Rob Allan. RA sold spears to me for period of about 1 ½ years.

So, for a period of 1 ½ years, while I was buying spears from him, he certainly did not have a problem with me. So, why would he have a problem with me now, almost 3 years after I stopped buying spears from him and 10 years after the gun first entered the market? Not possible. He is too nice and too smart of a guy.

I don’t know him personally, but from what I hear, he is a nice guy and is friends with the Rabitech distributor in South Africa who is also a great guy. RA has much more class than to say negative things about his friend or me, publicly. I don’t know exactly what he was referring to, but I am sure he was not speaking about MAKO or Rabitech.

So, forgive me for always seeing the best in people, but I don’t see how he was speaking about Mako or Rabitech.


Hey Lidiver,
Please forgive me. As you can tell, I am impressed with the Primeline latex tubing. Perhaps I should be saying that the Primeline ranks among the best in the world. I think that would be better. I apologize for not thinking of our European brothers and I do stand corrected. Thank you. I do have some specs from Primeline which are available on their website. But, my over zealous statements about the quality of Primeline were made mostly on feedback from our overseas customers. Again, I apologize.


In closing, I want to thank Rob Allan, Mike Damms, Chad Morris (Griswold), Daryl Wong and all you spearos for participating in this civil and respectful discussion. .

Dive safe,
dano

[WESTBURY]

Dano
You continue to impress me.

You sir, are a class act!

[OutdoorCatholic]

Originally Posted by MAKO Spearguns

Hey OutdoorCatholic,
You are partly right. However, with all due respect, I need to correct a couple things.

Dano,

No worries and sorry if my understanding was improper. At the end of the day all three of these companies are fighting over a finite amount of dollars in such a niche market and there are going to be hard feelings and rivalry in spite of any smiles and handshakes that may be presented on the surface. The fact that Mako's business model is much more value oriented probably contributes to some of the hard feelings when customers turn to Mako due to the lower prices (and still great customer service). Would I buy a Mako gun if money were no object? No, I would get something custom. Does my Mako gun put fish in the boat quite competently without breaking my budget? Absolutely.

Thanks,
Michael †