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California Fisheries Regulations and Science (MLPA & MPA) Here is a dedicated forum for the extremely important MLPA & MPA process

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Old 08-04-2012, 07:11 PM   #1
jimglover1
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What's the right thing to do?

Had a conversation with my Dad yesterday. He took my niece down to Victoria Beach(a place he and I have enjoyed fishing for years)to mess around in the tide pools. Soon after he arrived he notices a father with a couple children in tow carrying rod/reels. He informed them that the beach was a "no take/no fishing" closure area since 1/1/12 and they we completely shocked. Obviously ignorant to legislation, they went to the beach to enjoy an afternoon of family bonding in a gorgeous setting. My Dad says "I'm not gonna tell you what to do but did you read the sign on the stairs?"

I have also seen guys shorecasting some of my favorite spots while I'm kickin at the beach with my family and no gear which pisses me off.

This brings up, for me, an issue that hopefully some of you also have been soul searching about. Is it our obligation to inform the public about regulations to help keep them from getting cited? Or should we just say F it and let legal enforcement "catch them if they can." I have thought quite a bit about it and really don't know where I stand. I'm disgusted that my childhood spots have been ridiculously limited but I can't afford to be paying fines. Additionally I know there are not enough officers to patrol all of South Orange County but it makes me feel good that they can't site everybody. Do I condone poaching? No. But I don't condone closures either. Thoughts?
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #2
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I'd approach it the same way I approach it when I see people walking their dogs on the beach in Santa Monica and Venice Beach. "Hi, you probably don't know this but there's a law against dogs on this beach and the police will write you an expensive ticket if they see your dog here. I thought you should know."

At that point people can make up their own mind but I would want someone to tell me if I were unknowingly setting myself up for an expensive citation.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:11 PM   #3
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

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I'd approach it the same way I approach it when I see people walking their dogs on the beach in Santa Monica and Venice Beach. "Hi, you probably don't know this but there's a law against dogs on this beach and the police will write you an expensive ticket if they see your dog here. I thought you should know."

At that point people can make up their own mind but I would want someone to tell me if I were unknowingly setting myself up for an expensive citation.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

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I'd approach it the same way I approach it when I see people walking their dogs on the beach in Santa Monica and Venice Beach. "Hi, you probably don't know this but there's a law against dogs on this beach and the police will write you an expensive ticket if they see your dog here. I thought you should know."

At that point people can make up their own mind but I would want someone to tell me if I were unknowingly setting myself up for an expensive citation.
X3 I like it when someone tells me but I lessen. At the same time if they choose not to lessen. I have no problem calling game warden ether.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:07 PM   #5
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

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X3 I like it when someone tells me but I listen. At the same time if they choose not to listen. I have no problem calling game warden either.
Then you weren't really "X3." The previous two guys said

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At that point people can make up their own mind
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:22 PM   #6
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I grow up around a lot of poachers, what I found is someone that has regard for the law will say thank you and not go fishing. Poachers will continue to do what they want when they want. That is why I will call the game warden any time I feel someone is poaching(only after I give them info ie this a no fish\take beach). if they are not the warden will give them a warning.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:36 PM   #7
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I'd at least tell them, the rest is up to them. I did my duty to them as a fellow human being by informing them, and at that point I wash my hands of it like Pilate.

If they were taking undersize/over limit in an area that I could fish, I would inform them that they were breaking the law and if they didn't rectify it, I would call enforcement on them. We have so little access left that I will do what I can to ensure it remains viable.

If it was the situation above, a father and his kids unwittingly fishing in an MPA, I'd let them know about the law and then go about my business. I wouldn't call enforcement. In all honesty, I'd hope that they manage to denude the MPAs of life after that ground was stolen from us in such a corrupt fashion.

Though, if one were to think about it strategically, the proper course of action would be to not inform them and wait for the general uninformed public to start getting citations. That would be an opportunity to raise awareness about the situation with the general public and perhaps plant the seed towards getting it repealed, using the unwitting general public as martyrs to raise awareness.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:49 PM   #8
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I knew many poachers that used there kids, they would say I am not fishing my kids are. In the state I grow up in anyone under age of 16 didn't need fishing or small game license. Big game was was free just needed to put in for it so many fathers would used there kids. Due to my experience I will all was inform them and if I feel they are poaching I will call
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:53 PM   #9
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I would turn them in because only with pissed off people will we be able to halt mpa expansion.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #10
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

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I'd at least tell them, the rest is up to them. I did my duty to them as a fellow human being by informing them, and at that point I wash my hands of it like Pilate.

If they were taking undersize/over limit in an area that I could fish, I would inform them that they were breaking the law and if they didn't rectify it, I would call enforcement on them. We have so little access left that I will do what I can to ensure it remains viable.

If it was the situation above, a father and his kids unwittingly fishing in an MPA, I'd let them know about the law and then go about my business. I wouldn't call enforcement. In all honesty, I'd hope that they manage to denude the MPAs of life after that ground was stolen from us in such a corrupt fashion.

Though, if one were to think about it strategically, the proper course of action would be to not inform them and wait for the general uninformed public to start getting citations. That would be an opportunity to raise awareness about the situation with the general public and perhaps plant the seed towards getting it repealed, using the unwitting general public as martyrs to raise awareness.
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I would turn them in because only with pissed off people will we be able to halt mpa expansion.
SOOoooo torn on this one- you guys sum up my conundrum here perfectly. I will do what I can to protect kids from getting lit up, to be sure. But if a family brings their kids???? That's EXACTLY who we need to be pissed and ready to fight back against the onerous nature of these MPA's.
Makes me sick I tell ya.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:21 PM   #11
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I always politely tell them. Not fishing, but in a public hunting area I was fishing, I ran into a guy with a muzzleloader who said he was hog hunting. I informed him hunting was not allowed at that time. He was too obvious to be a poacher. The area was closed to hunting, but had been open during the same time the year before. He thanked me a dozen times and left.

If a person like that is instead defensive when I tell them, or if it looks like intentional poaching of a fish or game law, I would just call and let those who's job it is to sort it out take care of it.

But a man and his kids just goofing around with a fishing pole who look like they are already committed after a long drive and walk, or like a tourist walking a dog who have probably already committed by paying for nearby lodging, etc., I would politely inform them, but leave them to their own chances if they stayed.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:43 PM   #12
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

I am shocked at how many people I meet that fish and have never heard about the mlpa.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:25 PM   #13
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Re: What's the right thing to do?

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Originally Posted by draggin yak View Post
I always politely tell them. Not fishing, but in a public hunting area I was fishing, I ran into a guy with a muzzleloader who said he was hog hunting. I informed him hunting was not allowed at that time. He was too obvious to be a poacher. The area was closed to hunting, but had been open during the same time the year before. He thanked me a dozen times and left.

If a person like that is instead defensive when I tell them, or if it looks like intentional poaching of a fish or game law, I would just call and let those who's job it is to sort it out take care of it.

But a man and his kids just goofing around with a fishing pole who look like they are already committed after a long drive and walk, or like a tourist walking a dog who have probably already committed by paying for nearby lodging, etc., I would politely inform them, but leave them to their own chances if they stayed.
You are exactly right. Aside from exceptions like the three you mentioned, I'd call on anyone else who continues to fish after being told (defensive or not) as they are now poachers no matter how amateur.

I believe it would be wrong to try to get people in trouble to rally my cause to change a law unless the law endangered life, limb or mind or something comparably extreme but fishing restrictions aren't even close to that.

However, getting poachers in trouble to protect fish & so that restrictions can be lifted is something I believe I'm obligated to do.
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