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11-19-2018, 12:28 AM | #1 |
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Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
You would think that with the love of seafood that Japan would have a strong spearfishing culture, but with fishing/harvesting rules and regulations varying from locality to locality the Japanese spearfisherman has to be careful what he uses and where. Especially as sections of coast can be someone's traditional harvesting area which is guarded somewhat jealously against interlopers. A polespear is often the safest option in order not to run foul of local authorities and fishing unions and fishing co-operatives.
Despite that and a dearth of underwater weapon I finally stumbled on the Diveways Corporation spearguns that are manufactured in Japan. These are tube guns not unlike the Beuchat “Canon” in appearance judging by the few photos available on-line. http://www.diveways.jp/products/speargun.htm What I was searching for was some trace of the traditional Japanese rollerguns that use caterpillar track layout flat rubber bands, but as usual there is no sign of them anywhere. Last edited by popgun pete; 11-19-2018 at 12:42 AM. Reason: more info |
11-19-2018, 01:47 AM | #2 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
Nice band elevators on the Diveways.
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11-19-2018, 01:18 PM | #3 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
That is odd since as far as I know spearfishing with a speargun is nowhere allowed around the Japanese Island. Are they still being manufactured?
It came as no surprise to me that when I looked into it you can find some of the nicest quality pole spears being made in Japan. Typical long carbon fiber with titanium fittings. However when it comes to spearguns the high quality manufacturing that I am used to with Japanese items has not really transferred to spearguns. I believe that’s because almost no one uses them. Or have I missed something? |
11-19-2018, 04:51 PM | #4 | |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
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11-19-2018, 06:09 PM | #5 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
Some years ago there was a Japanese website offering a couple of hand-made spearguns of the highest quality in terms of the craftsmanship and I regret not buying one because of the price as they were around a grand US!
The Nakaoka Company offered a raft gun HB1 and a normal speargun HB2 along with a bunch of accessories including fish decoys and look boxes for topside shooting from a raft. I saved the HB2 speargun photo and attach it here as it is the diver’s version of the Nakaoka gun. The spear is launched from the mid-line of the stock which acts as a split barrel, very unusual and intriguing as is the twin blade spear tip. The website referred to their design as being of a Hiroshima gun type. I have searched for this gun in recent times but it seems to have gone up in smoke! This thread had a sense of deja vu about it and I checked back to this Japanese rollergun thread http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=171533 Last edited by popgun pete; 11-19-2018 at 06:34 PM. Reason: more info |
11-19-2018, 07:08 PM | #6 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
There is a tradition in Japan of shooting fish from the surface, either in a small boat or from a raft. The most notable of the guns used is the Suwa Tekko Sho “Scope-Arrow” speargun which has been discussed here before. The stock of the gun is a metal tube that contains a telescope for sighting and spearing the fish, the butt pad on the speargun being the rubber eyepiece for sighting through the body of the gun. A fishing reel of the "egg beater" type is mounted on the gun body so that the line strips off the fixed spool with the shot and then can be retrieved by cranking the handle on the reel, hopefully with an impaled fish on the end.
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=165143 Last edited by popgun pete; 11-19-2018 at 11:17 PM. Reason: added photo from skindiving history website |
11-19-2018, 07:18 PM | #7 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
Here is a review of the "Scope-Arrow" gun that I wrote a few years ago. (July 2013)
The "Scope-Arrow" speargun is a surface to water interface fishing device, it is not for use by divers. The viewing "telescope" looks through the barrel tube to sight the quarry and the rubber eye-piece is in a sense the rear butt pad, so the user does not wear a dive mask. There is an optional fitting to brace the gun on the side of the boat or you can oppose the recoil with both hands firmly on the double handgrips, otherwise you will take that impact on your eye-socket. Shoots lightweight fibreglass spear with two rubber bands. The spear gets up to speed, as do the bands, with much of their power stroke taking place in the air, so that requires less powerful bands than if the gun was completely submerged. Eggbeater-type (threadline) fishing reel retrieves the catch and you shoot straight off the reel, hence the choice of that type of reel with a flipping bail arm and the line pulling away from a drum pointing in the direction of the shot. Very nicely made and more of a curiosity than anything else unless you plan to use it in the way that it was intended (if local regulations allow that type of fishing, not all do). Many of these "Scope-Arrow" guns show little signs of any use, probably as once owners realize just what it is for the gun ends up in the storeroom. The US patent for the gun can be found on-line, company is "Suwa Tekko Sho", with detail drawings of every aspect of the gun. Not really an antique, mid-seventies from memory, and a number of them have been sold on eBay over the years. Last edited by popgun pete; 11-19-2018 at 11:46 PM. |
11-19-2018, 07:23 PM | #8 | |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
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Now, whether the stationed US servicemen have special allowance to spear with guns or have decided for themselves that it's "war reparations", I'd always wanted to know? |
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11-19-2018, 07:44 PM | #9 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
Although I have no proof my intuition tells me that the Japanese rollerguns are also surface interface shooters as the weak flat rubber band drive system would be fine operating out of the water. The guns in more recent times (as in after their initial development) have certainly been taken underwater, but probably not by their original owners. "Tairyo" and "King" brands seem to be the most common versions using the twin brass rail and sliding carriage drive system. As far as I know the guns have not been shot in recent times underwater in order to find out for sure. One problem with them being underwater guns is the lack on any corrosion on the majority of the surviving guns seen to date.
Here is a detail photo showing the trigger biasing, rubber band "springs". Well a memory welled up just thinking about the two "King" brand Japanese rollerguns that Don Paul bought on eBay and he did shoot one with modern rubber using inner tire tube strips. https://forums.deeperblue.com/thread...s.85475/page-9 Last edited by popgun pete; 11-19-2018 at 10:46 PM. Reason: more info |
11-20-2018, 12:06 AM | #10 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
The shortest "Standard" model is 41.000 Yen which is about US$365.00.
The longest "Super Magnum" model is 59.000 Yen which is about US$525.00. That is reasonably expensive for a tube gun, but being "made in Japan" the quality should be top notch. The guns look OK in the photos, but it would be nice to find some more detailed images of them. |
11-20-2018, 11:10 AM | #11 | |
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Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
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Thank you for pointing this out. I have spent quite some time in Japan both for work and pleasure and although I have not yet spearfished there my local friends always told me that it was only allowed with a pole spear. However I am sure you guys are right and what you describe makes perfect sense. @ Pete would love to see a picture of those handmade guns you mention. I love Japanese made tools and use them daily. Their level of craftsmanship is hard to match. Please post them if you ever find them again. |
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11-20-2018, 04:11 PM | #12 | |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
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These Japanese rollergun photographs were taken by spearfisherman and speargun master fabricator John Warren and were on his "rocknfish" website some years ago. The gun shown was owned by spearfishing legend Jack Prodanovich and it is Jack who is holding the gun. The first in the series was shown in a previous post, here are the rest of them. This is a "Tairyo" rollergun and the label states that, plus something like "big fish" in Japanese also appearing on the anodized label or nameplate. Note the crisp and clean line carpentry in evidence on this early gun, yet there seems to be no signs of wood immersion or any corrosion of the adjacent bronze parts, either wire or castings or the threaded fasteners and bronze/brass nails. Last edited by popgun pete; 11-20-2018 at 06:09 PM. Reason: more info |
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11-20-2018, 04:34 PM | #13 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
Also recovered was this commentary I wrote in August 2011 when corresponding with John Warren and Ron Mullins who now holds this gun in trust for the enlightenment and education of the spearfishing "tribe".
We now know what the ring on the thin brass rod sticking out of the trigger does, it connects to a (missing) rubber band that biases the trigger forwards. This rubber band hence acts as a biasing or trigger return spring and attaches at its other end to the brass ring located in front of the trigger and just behind the built-in reel. As for the line, well it must shoot straight off the reel and passes through the two brass rings on the underside of the barrel to keep it away from the band system, otherwise it might be caught up in the rotating rollers during the shot. I expect that on seeing his target the operator pulls out a length of free line from the reel and after that takes his shot. Experience would govern how much line had to be pulled free as well as the required shooting distance. I doubt that any of these guns shot a long way due to the small cross-section of the thin flat bands, they just don't store enough energy compared to round or tubular bands. The roller system used on the guns no doubt wrung as much performance as possible from the flat rubber bands. Longer shots would have to contend with fish alerted by the carrier crashing into the stops on the rails, so I don't think anything much beyond ten feet, even for the longest gun models. The thin brass spears used impose another limit, anything large would make short work of them. The brass slide rings and detachable tips (missing) would have helped somewhat, but they are very light in construction as well. One way to find out about the range would be to take a shot with one, the banding system is now known, the brass end rings on each band are pulled back to slip over the curved back hooks on each side of the carrier. To stop the carrier twisting sideways on the rails, my guess is one band on both sides was pulled back simultaneously, or in a way where the load on the carrier was never too asymmetrical and risked distorting the brass rails. The gun butt went against the stomach, held there by band tension as both the rubber straps were pulled up and slipped onto the carrier hooks. This explains the safety device, dropping the band end rings onto the hooks could jerk the trigger and fire the gun, so the trigger is locked out. Once ready to begin fishing the operator turned the safety to "off", in this case turning the flattened wire loop on the rod situated just in front of the trigger and on the left hand side of the gun. That tells us this gun was built for a right-handed operator. I am always surprised that no one from Japan has volunteered more information given the decade or so that your page on this subject has been around. |
11-20-2018, 04:56 PM | #14 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
Somewhat later I made the suggestion that the pivoting safety arm had too long a bent arm on its distal end and that it may have served two jobs. One as a safety device to hold the trigger wire loop on the end of the wand connected to the actual trigger and providing one end of the biasing rubber band holder and the other job as a swinging line release arm. This dual purpose functionality is demonstrated in the line drawing created to explain the missing rubber parts on the gun. A swinging line release arm would keep the shooting line wraps clear of the caterpillar track system when the gun fired.
Note that the line drawing of the Japanese rollergun is of a slightly different version where the hooks on the sliding carriage are transposed to the sides of the timber stock and the rings on the terminal ends of the bands are pulled back to engage on these hooks rather than the bands being anchored on ring mounts on the sides of the stock and the bands with terminal rings being hauled back to engage the integral hooks on the sliding carriage. This version had sheet metal parts rather than cast items, still made of brass/bronze and was either an early prototype or a later attempt to lower weight and construction cost. This later "J-gun", for want of a name as it bore no name plate, was one of the few guns to still have its original flat red rubber "caterpillar track" bands, albeit gone gummy and badly deteriorated with the efflux of time. Last edited by popgun pete; 11-20-2018 at 06:42 PM. Reason: more info |
11-20-2018, 06:13 PM | #15 |
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Re: Japanese spearguns (local manufacture)
just have a question maybe not related to that gun quality but shape ,so why speargun made in japan/Australia/USA in square or rectangular cross section shape ?not all but majority choose the stick shape as my previous Ukrainian buddy always describe it ,usually the square shape will have more resistance in maneuvering than other shapes for example oval or round , the beauty of wood come out when we shape it to something with combination of different cuts and levels ,art of shaping the wood made the gun different from the aluminum barrel .
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