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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 11-05-2018, 02:12 AM   #136
Rob Allen
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

When I used the laser, I very soon worked out that it was important to keep the light off fish as it spooked them. I found I could only bring it onto the fish (behind the eyes) just before shooting. What was nice though was not having to look for the DOT, just follow the beam. The dirtier the water (particulates) the more the actual beam was visible. This was much easier to see and use when trying to angle the gun, rather than trying to look for the dot. The reason I built it was to shoot from the hip. In reality it did not work because the way the gun was held affected the way it shot, causing massive variables due to the different ways it would recoil.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:36 AM   #137
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Allen View Post
When I used the laser, I very soon worked out that it was important to keep the light off fish as it spooked them. I found I could only bring it onto the fish (behind the eyes) just before shooting. What was nice though was not having to look for the DOT, just follow the beam. The dirtier the water (particulates) the more the actual beam was visible. This was much easier to see and use when trying to angle the gun, rather than trying to look for the dot. The reason I built it was to shoot from the hip. In reality it did not work because the way the gun was held affected the way it shot, causing massive variables due to the different ways it would recoil.
So the less time the laser is on then the better for not scaring the fish, except for the one about to be shot who hopefully will have not much time to think about it!
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:16 AM   #138
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

Time on was never an issue, just where it is pointing. I could not hold the gun up and aim normally. Normally you would aim slightly ahead and just let the fish swim in front of the gun. If you do this, there was a strong chance that the light would get in its eye. I had to keep it under then lift behind the eye. Not so easy if the fish was moving a little fast. The last time I used it was when a large shoal of good fish came into view and I was being careful not to get the light in the eye of the closest and largest. Just as I was lining up the spot on the spine, the light obviously hit the eye of a fish way in the back of the shoal and the whole shoal suddenly spooked. Result, no fish.

Personally, I think there is more value in a device with multi beams (not strong ones) emanating from a sphere to keep sharks off. This laser was a great deterrent to keep sharks and big groupers at bay. This could also be attached to the float, just above the fish stringer where sharks steel fish often.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:03 PM   #139
Joe Wortsmith
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

I'm putting all of you guys on my engineering team. Ya'll come up with the neatest ideas.
RF transmission underwater is problematic so Bluetooth won't work. But the simplest approach has merit. The momentary and waterproof switch that is included with the remote triggered laser sight is thumb operated. It's inexpensive, proven effective and it's not a Rube Goldberg design. The trick is to get the working system into the hands of the spear gunners. I'll be exhibiting at DEMA next week to see if there is a dealer and instructor interest. I'll let you guys know the out come. Joe Wortsmith
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:20 PM   #140
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

Joe maybe you could ask at the show whether people would want a laser on a given gun or would want something modular and transferable as many people, including me, have a number of different guns for different hunting situations and prey. That said clean water, long range shooting guns would be first cab off the rank, however longer euroguns in the same service have much less real estate to accommodate a laser system on than say a hybrid pipe gun or a ballasted multi-band cannon. In other words a bit of market research given that divers will have access to an affordable system which may have not been on their radar before as most thought of such things as being unattainable and out of reach.
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:39 AM   #141
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

I agree with Pete, a unit that is easy to transfer from gun to gun and or to remove totally would be far more practical.



On a side not, it was mentioned earlier that maybe a red light would work better, less likely to scare, this needs to be tested. I am of the opinion it won't make a difference.



We sell the hand held green laser to commercial divers who use it when pointing out issues underwater while filming. We once were sent red by mistake and they tried to use it but did not like it. We all know that red is the first colour to disappear underwater but if it is driven by a separate power source it still works. The red lasers were half the price but way less effective.



Apparently the colour red in a laser is generated differently to green, Joe you will know more about this.
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:29 AM   #142
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

Pete, the aftermarket approach is a cost effective entry to the market but it has not produced results. The laser designs that I offer are removable and relocatable but there has not been any interest. Even a blind hog will get an acorn every once in a while but I haven't gotten any response from my web site or first page listing on a Google search. It's frustrating. That's why I'm trying to Appeal to the dealer market. It's the other channel to the end user.

Note: I had to switch from Silicone RTV to 3M 4200 Marine Sealant as an adhesive to attache the remote trigger and laser module. The Silicone would soften under the heat in the bow of the boat during transport. Not good.

Rob, I agree that green is more visible and effective. But the fish think so too. I parted a school of bait fish like it was a hot knife in butter with green and scared any game fish with a steady beam exposure. A momentary switch with less exposure is better and I still get my kills. So I'm sticking with green. But like a good closing argument, an alternate of choice, either red or green, still produces a sale. Also, the technical difference between red and green is becoming less an issue. Green is still more costly to make but the temperature range and ruggedness is now the same.

I've got Carlos Chavez, owner of the Bay Breeze Dive Shop in Gulf Breeze, FL, to teach spear fishing using laser sights. I'll learn the market preference from his experience. He's in the Gulf of Mexico, promoting local reef diving on wrecks using Scuba and he teaches 15 classes a year. We'll see.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:41 PM   #143
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

Joe has added a short video showing his laser equipped gun in action. Seeing is believing.
https://lasertoolsco.com/

https://youtu.be/gIviYYEOU2E

Maybe another video showing a brief tour around the gun would assist in people getting a handle on this new device.

The specifications (from Joe's web-site)

SPECIFICATIONS: Speargun Laser System with Remote Trigger

Model RT58DC: Red Beam Laser, Class IIIa (IEC 3R) < 5mW @635nm
Model GRT58DC: Green Beam Laser, Class IIIa (IEC3R) < 5mW @520nm (10X brighter)
Power: 1-DL123A Lithium Photo Battery (4-5 hours of continuous use).
Remote Switch Module: SPDT Momentary On, Center Off, Full On with power connector
Laser Module Includes: 12” power cord, connector and brass laser module
Depth Rating: Over 200 feet.

SPECIFICATIONS: Speargun Laser System with Single Module

Model SG58: Red Laser Beam, Class IIIa (IEC3R) <5mW @ 635nm
Model GSG58: Green Laser Beam, Class IIIa (IEC3R) <5mW @ 520nm (10X Brighter)
Power: 1-CR123A Panasonic Lithium Photo Battery (4-5 Hrs. Continuous Use)
Depth Rating: Over 200 feet

Now an idea of the weight would be useful and attachment details if say the device was to be removed and placed on another gun.

Last edited by popgun pete; 11-07-2018 at 03:58 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:22 PM   #144
Joe Wortsmith
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

Good idea on the next video, Pete. I'm warming up to the media. How'd you like the video? It's Carlos Chavez, owner of Bay Breeze Dive Shop, diving on the Russian Freighter at 80', 7 1/2 miles out into the Gulf off of Pensacola, FL. He knows which fish are in season and the wreck too.
But the purpose was to show the laser beam through the water, the dot on the scales, deflection shots and distance accuracy. Piece of cake! (Carlos could probably shoot a Neon Tetra dead on with a blind fold!) But it sure helps my hit rate to use a laser. The dot on the fish almost guaranties a placed shot.
As for weight, the RT58DC Remote Trigger and Laser Module with connector wire setup weights over 9 Oz out of the water but only 3.9 Oz submerged in fresh water. It's 3D printed out of a tough resin so it's corrosion resistant to salt water too. The non-replaceable battery compartment connectors are gold plated as well. Good stuff. Price ranges from $295.00 to $595.00.
If you want to remove the laser, use silicone RTV to attach the laser parts. It's easy to pull off. If that doesn't work, use 3M 4200. This is marine grade adhesive and you can glue your grandma to the wall with this stuff so use it sparingly! Joe Wortsmith
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:24 AM   #145
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

The spearfishing video is good, you can see the thin green line in the water, but hard to see it on the fish although I was concentrating on the beam and not paying attention to the target. The gun user probably sees it better as unlike the camera he is looking directly along the beam line and will see reflections off scales, etc.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:10 AM   #146
Rob Allen
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

I found it better to keep my head to one side in order to see the beam. Once on target just pull the trigger.
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:09 PM   #147
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

That's how I do it too. I just look for the dot on the head of the fish and pull the trigger. Joe
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:19 PM   #148
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

I watched the video again and this time concentrated on the dot at the "end" of the beam and could see it easily enough, although with better video resolution it would probably show up even better. The dot seems not that far from the muzzle at times, but that will be due to the viewing angle foreshortening and the actual distance to what at that instant was being illuminated. I note that suspended particles briefly twinkle in the beam, however they are not a distraction.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:04 PM   #149
Joe Wortsmith
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

The dot is very noticeable underwater by both the diver and the fish too. Remember, the diver sees reflected light while the fish sees incident light. This is a big difference in apparent brightness and why the fish can be spooked. The beam is visible in the water because of the reflection of the light off of the particles in the water. It's a regular light saber in low light, fresh water lakes. You can't see the beam at all in Pelagic water.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:18 PM   #150
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Re: Has anyone worked on developing speargun sights?

This thread just reminded me of a little joke I made some years ago concerning a maiden in distress on a "look at me" banner on a Ukrainian web-site. I added an off-screen "helper" with an "elektro-powerhead" and a green laser coming to the rescue. Either it worked or they were both going to be in big trouble! Why she has lost her dive mask is unexplained, except for a better view of her pretty face.

The muzzle nose just peeking out is a "Pelengas" pneumovacuum gun muzzle and let's say it is a big one, like a 140 cm!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pnevmatic-V...UAAOSwyEdbtMdD

https://forums.deeperblue.com/thread....100126/page-3
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Last edited by popgun pete; 11-08-2018 at 11:26 PM. Reason: added URL
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