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Old 02-10-2017, 01:49 AM   #1
Diving Gecko
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Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

I just finished another handle mod, this time on a d'Angelo 1 handle for a Pathos 100 Open Pro.

I initially bought this gun for a friend but ended up making her a shorter gun. But as Majd/SpearQ8 has pointed out, the early version Pathos like this one is very good value - especially, if you are in Europe and can shop with Scubastore and not incur customs.

Anyways, here goes.

The d'Angelo handle does not have the changeable grips like the V2 and V3 handles. Not that it really matters when making a custom grip that will be fixed in place. It's also shorter, so you likely don't need to dremel it down to get a better, shorter distance to the trigger.
The handle has a textured rubber pad glued in place on each side. I decided to pop them off and fill the void on the inside, too. My putty weighs less than water, so I am not losing buoyancy by doing this:


I wasn't sure how strong the float line attachment point on the bottom of the handle was so I wanted to test it on my "line breaking bench" and... I actually snapped it off at about 70kg:




So, now I had to fix that. What I came up with was inserting a piece of 4x6mm PU tube into the handle (I changed to a black one later on):





When on to tape up and plug the handle before going nuts with the putty:


Sorry, again no pics of when I whipped up the putty - it's just too messy. It's my usual concoction of epoxy mixed with microballons and chopped carbon fibers. Light but strong enough for the intended use. It's a bit hit of miss with this putty though. And it wont really take the shape well until it start curing a bit, so regular putties or Shapelock/Polymorp is def much easier to work with.

Here is how it looked after some initial curing:

I took a knife to it before it cured fully.

When it had fully cured, I sanded down some of the ridges the glove had left - I should have smoothed them over when shaping the handle, that would have been easier. Also, I found a few air bubbles I dremel'ed out and filled. Then I coated the whole grip in some epoxy:




Finally, I added a friction layer on this one by using carborundum.
I did a quick test with the two grits sizes I had (#16 & #24):


To get the carborundum to stick properly, I thickened the epoxy slightly with some silica powder and graphite powder (the latter only for the color) brushed a thin layer on the grip and sprinkled the carborundum on. I opted for the finer grit (#24):




Now, I just need to pop the mech and rubber pad back in, put it back on the gun and thread a soft shackle through the tube in the bottom and it's ready to shoot:-)

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 02-10-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:59 AM   #2
spearq8
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Great job! You are getting good at this! I just did a handle with some super light epoxy putty from Japan ... the stuff actually floats !!! I really like it. As for the plastic breaking at 70kg ... good point ... I actually put a U shaped CF wrap over the bottom of the plastic and then the normal CF tape wrap. Maybe I should use 2 U shaped wraps for extra strength as I tie my gun to a float line. I am not sure how strong it is with the CF U and CF tape ... but have had some really hard pulls with some big fish with no problems. I actually worry more about the muzzle screw coming off ... so I put 3 layers of CF tape and added an extra screw to the muzzle.

The Pathos D'Angelo 1 gun is really one of the absolute best bargain gun for someone who is willing to modify it. The plastic trigger housing might be a worry, but I have made a few SS triggers with side line release and that really opens up the possibilities. With a 130 gun, you could put a CF sleeve, change the trigger ... mod the handle ... and maybe add some ballast to be able to use a heavier 8mm shaft so the gun won't sink ... and you have some incredible performance in a very robust setup at probably less than $250. Of course everyone's time is worth something and that is not factoring all this in ... but if you enjoy messing around with stuff you really can make something that is more accurate and more powerful than guns 5 x the price.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:09 AM   #3
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Very nice... You surely are getting good!!! That pic right before the friction layer looks like marble on the handle don't it?

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Old 02-10-2017, 09:32 AM   #4
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Awesome work!!
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:51 AM   #5
JMurphy
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Awesome!

I have 3 pathos guns with the d'angelo 1 handle that I'm working on (60cm aluminum, 75cm carbon, and 90cm carbon)

I removed the loading pad and cut the holding pin to make it similar to rob allen gun. (brought my hand closer to the trigger)

I'm working now on sanding the back of the handle to move my hand closer to the trigger. I used 80 grit sand paper, followed by 120 grit.

Next I'm going to use the marine grade epoxy putty that was used in the video.

Finally I'd like to add the friction layer.

What kind of clear epoxy and friction layer did you use? Do you know where I can buy them?

Thanks,

Jordan
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Old 02-11-2017, 01:05 AM   #6
Diving Gecko
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefShark View Post
Very nice... You surely are getting good!!! That pic right before the friction layer looks like marble on the handle don't it?

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Sure does:-).
The first time I used this homemade putty, I thought exactly the same. It sure can turn out pretty. That said, I think I will step back from pitching it as heavily as I have done before. It's just not as easy to work with as ready-made putty. Especially the long curing time is a bit of a hassle.
But I have all the stuff here anyways (epoxy resins, fillers, fibers) and I have more than enough time on my hands as a freelance photographer. So, I will probably still keep using it.
I do think next time, I will mix it all up and then let it sit in the container for 45mins or so until it firms up a little. I think that could help.
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Old 02-11-2017, 01:22 AM   #7
Diving Gecko
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMurphy View Post
Awesome!

I have 3 pathos guns with the d'angelo 1 handle that I'm working on (60cm aluminum, 75cm carbon, and 90cm carbon)

I removed the loading pad and cut the holding pin to make it similar to rob allen gun. (brought my hand closer to the trigger)

I'm working now on sanding the back of the handle to move my hand closer to the trigger. I used 80 grit sand paper, followed by 120 grit.

Next I'm going to use the marine grade epoxy putty that was used in the video.

Finally I'd like to add the friction layer.

What kind of clear epoxy and friction layer did you use? Do you know where I can buy them?

Thanks,

Jordan
Thanks Jordan:-)
Your plan sounds good. Often when you have to remove material it may make sense to just cut it with a Stanley knife, a wood file or a dremel tool to get the bulk of it done fast. Sanding plastic can take a while. Just as long as you end with 80/120 grit sand paper which will leave the surface ready for the epoxy to adhere to.

As for epoxy, I used laminating epoxy for composites - just because I have that around already. Unless you need to do the odd composites work, there is not much need for it.
If I recall correctly, when Majd made the friction layer in his video, I think he actually used one of the thicker epoxy glues and not the thinner laminating kind? That makes sense as after I did my quick test on the wooden piece in the post above, I noticed that the regular laminating epoxy was a bit too thin (maybe it got sucked into the wood) so it didn't really hold on to the "sand" that well. That's why I thickened it slightly when I used it on the handle. Using the thicker glue stuff would take care of that.
That said, I think Majd uses proper laminating epoxy for his carbon fiber tape. But if you are not reinforcing the handle with fiber, you don't have to go out and spend money on laminating epoxy resin.
If you do wanna get into it, then you could start with e.g. some West Systems.

For the friction layer, there has been a bit if talk on the forum here lately about 'carborundum' or carbide powder and it is what Majd used in his video, too. (There are some nice examples on his thread here and here - perhaps post over there and ask which grit they used and where they got it). I am a bit of an anomaly as I in China so I sometimes have to spend quite a bit of time to research and source all this stuff. What I found out is that carborundum is used to make grinding stones and for sandblasting. Perhaps, if you happen to have a sandblasting facility nearby, they would give you a handful for free. You could use beach sand, too. I did that in a pinch on another handle. If you go down that route - I'd bake it in the oven to get all the moisture out.
Other people use PU sealant, but it will wear out with time.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 02-11-2017 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:46 AM   #8
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

I use very slow cure and very thin epoxy for the CF ... I need it to thoroughly wet the CF. Any excess epoxy is wisked out when I wrap the handle in peel ply and then a special film that allows the epoxy to wisk out and another felt type wrap to absorb excess epoxy when I put it in a vacuum bag. The handle is small, so I just use a $40 vacuum sealer machine and it works fine. That epoxy takes forever to cure and so when it is cold I put the bag near a heater ... with a vacuum sealer it is great as you don't have the vacuum pump running the entire time (can take more than 12 hours on a cold day) ... you just seal the handle in the bag and it stays sealed. Pluse the vacuum sealer is great to use on many things ... especially bands that will be stored.

With friction layer I just use 5 minute to 15 minute fast cure epoxy. It is much thicker and there is no way the thin epoxy would work well as it just can't get enough epoxy around the friction particles. I actually like to cover the area with epoxy and then heat it with a blow dryer to make it accept the particles better. Silicone carbide gives much more grip than sand as sand is rounded and doesn't have sharp edges ... it is also much harder and will hold up much better. The grit I used in the video is very coarse and probably not best ... but that was the only stuff I could find. I first put the coarse stuff and then sprinkle black sand where I can still see some shiny epoxy. I will try to get some of the stuff in 60 or 80 grit ... that is probably best. Obviously if you plan to use no gloves then sand is a better option.

Doing this handle mod sounds like it is just over doing things ... but trust me ... if you adjust the handle and put on a friction layer ... you will get much better shaft flight with much less recoil ... much more power with very high accuracy. It really makes a huge difference and is well worth the effort. I would bet that the handle mod alone gives you about a 20% boost in performance ... and much better accuracy. I have proof of that in penetration testing and accuracy testing. Maybe one day I will put the video together and post it.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:41 AM   #9
Behslayer
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Here's a cool way pulled from an old thread on a gunbuilding site. I like the way he uses the screws as a measuring reference and also as suuport.

Here's some interesting reading regarding Patent on Grip Rotation

https://www.google.com/patents/US20140144058
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:31 PM   #10
Diving Gecko
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Had to do the muzzle, too. Not as much work as it may look like as I had the putty out for another grip I am working on anyways. Then the next day I just wet sanded and polished it. Some pinholes as you can tell, but not a biggie at all. Now, the muzzle holds two 14mm bands with just enough pressure that they should stay nicely in place. Also, I gained at least half an inch of band stretch:
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:58 PM   #11
alldayreese
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

The handle looks nice, I am looking into trying to modify my handle also. Will be my first time.

Did you change the trigger mechanism? Or did you keep the same plastic trigger and line release set up.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:01 AM   #12
Diving Gecko
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

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Originally Posted by alldayreese View Post
The handle looks nice, I am looking into trying to modify my handle also. Will be my first time.

Did you change the trigger mechanism? Or did you keep the same plastic trigger and line release set up.
Hi Reese,
Didn't see this post. I just kept the original trigger. Gun is rigged with two 14mm small ID band so from what I hear, there shouldn't be any issues with that. I did actually end up making a slightly longer line release out of some 4mm stainless steel rod. But I really need to make sure I didn't make it it too long. Might have to shoot some slow mo video to help check that.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:32 AM   #13
kavachi
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
........With friction layer I just use 5 minute to 15 minute fast cure epoxy. It is much thicker and there is no way the thin epoxy would work well as it just can't get enough epoxy around the friction particles. I actually like to cover the area with epoxy and then heat it with a blow dryer to make it accept the particles better. Silicone carbide gives much more grip than sand as sand is rounded and doesn't have sharp edges ... it is also much harder and will hold up much better. The grit I used in the video is very coarse and probably not best ... but that was the only stuff I could find. I first put the coarse stuff and then sprinkle black sand where I can still see some shiny epoxy. I will try to get some of the stuff in 60 or 80 grit ... that is probably best. Obviously if you plan to use no gloves then sand is a better option........
took me too bloody long to get around to doing it, but have to concur - stippled polyurethane or roughed wood is fine for single band guns, but once you really start powering things up, the 'grit grip' really helps with accuracy!
a belated thanks to Majd and DG and Jon for the help
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:40 AM   #14
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Re: Pathos Handle Mod Majd Style (d'Angelo 1)

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took me too bloody long to get around to doing it, but have to concur - stippled polyurethane or roughed wood is fine for single band guns, but once you really start powering things up, the 'grit grip' really helps with accuracy!
a belated thanks to Majd and DG and Jon for the help
dramatic improvement in consistency when shooting triple 15mm small ID bands at 400%
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