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Technical Spearfishing Technical Scuba diving is generally defined as going deeper than 130 feet. You must have the proper training for this extreme aspect of spearfishing.

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Old 04-18-2006, 12:03 PM   #1
GRIM REEFER
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Single tank or Double

I got all my tech training in caves, But long before that I learned to dive with a speargun in my hand but usually no deeper than 150' bounce dives on one gas.
Now I want to go after the big boys. I have loads of numbers in 150'-240' and want to start diving them.

On the deeper stuff, when getting into deco, do you guys that do it use doubles, H valves or just carry a bailout. I've already found out what a pain in the ass it is to load the bands with a 40' of 50/50 on my side I had to laugh though surounded by fish and I could'nt do shit.

So I got a 30' bottle of 50% I can strap to the side of a 121lp. That's probably what i'm going to be using mostly. And having 100% hanging 20' below the boat.

I love using doubles on the deep stuff but i'd rather leave them at home
on the spearfishing trips. they are very stable and comfortable, but too much drag for spearing

Just looking for some thoughts on this, maybe my solution is not a good one. I thought it may work for me.

I'm not looking to spend money on overpriced training that I already have, But would be glad to help pay for gas to whoever does this kind of thing
My buddy's who dive to 400' dont spearfish.
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:27 PM   #2
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Re: Single tank or Double

I put and extension on my gun so I could cock it with AL40 stages.Doubles aren't suited for my boat (20')altho we have had 5 sets onboard and transfilled outtta seriously jacked HPs into the LPs for dive 3.As far as ggetting more than 1 dive outta doubles ...WTFpoint as I could have redundancy with a stage.
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:15 AM   #3
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Re: Single tank or Double

I dive with a 121LP with a mix of 19/35 pumped to 3200lbs and I hang a AL 100 over the side at 30ft filled with 50% O2. With this configuration I can reach 200+ and stay for 10 minutes or so. If there is anything to shoot, hot damn. If not, it was a good dive. When I dive the rigs sometimes I carry a sling bottle and I will tie it of at about 50ft to the rig. But if you are diving a pile of rock you are S-O-L. I am with you though diving doubles while spearing is a lot of effort. I would hate to go with doubles and find out that the fish are not there. Because you would have used up two bottles instead of one. Good Hunting!!!
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Old 04-19-2006, 08:55 AM   #4
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Re: Single tank or Double

Single steel tank jacked up and a 30 pony bottle with air. On deep dives I beleive you should have air in your pony instead of a mix. I know you want to start scrubbing on your ascent, but with one tank and one reg I am more concerned about a gear failure when I'm on the bottom.
It took some time to convince one of my buddies to use air in his pony until he had a problem with the valve on his main tank(at 1000-1200 it quit delivering). He was at 180ft in deco 10 digging a cubera out of a hole when it happened. He was glad he had air in his pony instead of 80%. The 30 was more than enough for him to make his ascent
We also use a hang bottle at 20ft with 70-80%
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Old 04-20-2006, 09:19 AM   #5
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Re: Single tank or Double

good info
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Old 04-20-2006, 10:31 AM   #6
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Re: Single tank or Double

IMHO, hang bottles and tie offs are pretty much useless, if you come up out of range due to current or other factors you are screwed. Yeah, an unanchored boat staying on top of you also sounds good and works pretty well in flat seas, but you are still rolling some pretty shitty dice with that as well. Safety diver? Still pretty iffy if the current it dragging your bubbles 100 yards.

If you can't take all of what your deco schedule calls for and some extra.......Then don't do it!
If you can't configure your gear to be conducive to cocking your gun or any other task that could be relative to spearfishing in deep water.......Don't do it until you have perfected the same configuration and techniques in shallow water as you will be using in deep water! Finding out that you don't know how to, or can't reach the valves necessary to redirect the proper gas mix for the depth you are at due to equipment failure in deep water could be the end of you. As far as packing rat poison (air) in my pony for a bail out to use instead of H valves and spare regs with positive inline flow stops is NOT what I would suggest. Going from trimix or nitrox to rat poison in deep water may be survivable but the narcosis you will deal with in such a dire situation could seriously complicate matters greatly.

As far as one tank or two, Whatever your consumption requirements are at the max target depth when you just dive it without a speargun, then multiply it by 2. Deco mix included. The difference between tech diving without spearing fish vs. doing it while spearfishing is like walking a mile through your own neighborhood vs. walking a mile through a crack town ghetto. It is still just a mile, and things may go just fine. But there is a real good chance things might get bad real quick. If you’re not prepared to walk or run an extra mile, you could be in deep sheit.
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:59 AM   #7
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Re: Single tank or Double

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Pig
Single steel tank jacked up and a 30 pony bottle with air. On deep dives I beleive you should have air in your pony instead of a mix. I know you want to start scrubbing on your ascent, but with one tank and one reg I am more concerned about a gear failure when I'm on the bottom.
It took some time to convince one of my buddies to use air in his pony until he had a problem with the valve on his main tank(at 1000-1200 it quit delivering). He was at 180ft in deco 10 digging a cubera out of a hole when it happened. He was glad he had air in his pony instead of 80%. The 30 was more than enough for him to make his ascent
We also use a hang bottle at 20ft with 70-80%
After reading KMoose's response, I realize I didn't properly qualify my earlier response.

This is what we use in depths of 180ft or less. Also, we don't rely on the boat to drop the hang bottle during the ascent, and believe in being self-sufficient while in the water. All of us carry floats, so during deco the boat is able to locate us.
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:28 PM   #8
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Re: Single tank or Double

Sorry Ken, wasn't intentionally pickin on ya. Some people are more used to dealing with strait air than others. Hell I start to slur words after 2 Margaritas.
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:39 PM   #9
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Re: Single tank or Double

Kenny

No problem

I don't want to put any bad info out there. Sometimes I bang my posts out too quickly. Personally, I like to put whatever mix is in my main tank into my pony. It just happens to be air a lot of the time

I do have a question for you on the H valves. Do you know if you have a failure on the main valve, would you still have air flow to the "H"? All of my valves are capable of accepting an "H" valve and I have considered putting them on.

I have never seen a valve fail like that, but it was a Beuchat

BTW Cubera boy Nunn was the person who had the valve fail
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:39 PM   #10
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Re: Single tank or Double

I've used a jacked up LP single with a 13-19 cft pony filled with air behind me (attached to the LP) on my right and a 30 cft filled with deco mix behind me on my left (second stage bagged and clipped to my left side). That way I have a bail out pony if things go wrong at depth, and I still have my deco mix that I can use once I ascend to a safe depth. Having a pony on each side also helps balance things out. Having everything behind me, keeps my work area clear.

Last edited by kitefisherman; 04-20-2006 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:54 PM   #11
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Re: Single tank or Double

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Pig
I do have a question for you on the H valves. Do you know if you have a failure on the main valve, would you still have air flow to the "H"? All of my valves are capable of accepting an "H" valve and I have considered putting them on.

I have never seen a valve fail like that, but it was a Beuchat
I can't imagine how, but I guess it could happen (H valve failure). I sure would have liked to see the guts on the valve that failed on Nunn. That is some weird sheit there for sure. Did it just lock up? or was it the first stage of the reg? You would think that once the valve was open, it would stay open. I've seen them strip and unable to open or close, but one has never shut down during a dive on me.
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Old 04-20-2006, 01:49 PM   #12
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Re: Single tank or Double

Ken -

The only way that you would loose gas to both regs on an H-valve would be an failure at the valve stem and tank. You can shut down either valve and still have gas delivered to the other reg.

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Old 04-20-2006, 03:19 PM   #13
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Re: Single tank or Double

Matt

Thanks for the info



Kenny

It was confirmed as a valve failure. It was all the way open, and during his ascent he was able to grab a few breaths off of it. Once it got below the threshold of approximately 1000 psi it would not deliver. His reg was fine
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:24 PM   #14
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Re: Single tank or Double

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIM REEFER
My buddy's who dive to 400' dont spearfish.

Doc actually has his own speargun and if you tell Alan there is a chance of finding another saltwater cave system he will go anytime.!


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Old 04-20-2006, 06:36 PM   #15
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Re: Single tank or Double

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Pig

It was confirmed as a valve failure. It was all the way open, and during his ascent he was able to grab a few breaths off of it. Once it got below the threshold of approximately 1000 psi it would not deliver. His reg was fine
Wow, that is some crazy shizit there. You would think something so simple wouldn't give you any trouble. Well that goes to show ya, if it is man made, it can fail. Without a pony he definitely would have been in trouble all the way out on the Bow. If I was buck eighty and my main mix suddenly shut down I would of been thrilled with strait air........hell, I would suck farts out of a donkey's ass if i didn't have a pony.
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