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Old 02-04-2013, 12:11 PM   #1
shafe
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Fish ID question

Was out at murky Big Rock, Malibu on Saturday and repeatedly saw a school of 20+ fish I'm still trying to ID. Approx 20-30" long and silver with yellow tails. Very skittish. Some people say they were juvie WSB but their mouths weren't as pointed as the photos I've seen so I'm thinking they were ocean whitefish. see photo attached...

My question is: Are schools of whitefish common in that area? or schools of juvie WSB?


btw - great site for learning reef fish for the noobs out there:
http://pnwscuba.smugmug.com/REEF/CAL...5928&k=NzWZLGJ
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #2
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Re: Fish ID question

That pic is definitely an ocean whitefish. 20", yeah, that's a nice whitefish. 30", that would be a huge whitefish. I don't know the area up there, but you will usually find them where the sand and reef meet. Usually deeper than 30', but they do have fins so they can go where they want.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #3
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Re: Fish ID question

good eating?
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:09 PM   #4
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Re: Fish ID question

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Originally Posted by CaptainLeo View Post
That pic is definitely an ocean whitefish. 20", yeah, that's a nice whitefish. 30", that would be a huge whitefish. I don't know the area up there, but you will usually find them where the sand and reef meet. Usually deeper than 30', but they do have fins so they can go where they want.
Sorry for the confusion. That photo of a whitefish was straight off the internet. I meant the fish I saw looked more like whitefish than WSB but that seems odd to me because I have rarely read of people taking whitefish in Malibu. I was in water maybe 20-30 feet deep btw near a big rock.

I guess my question is -- is it more likely they were WSB or whitefish? Any Malibu divers regularly seen schools of whitefish or juvie WSB?

thanks.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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Re: Fish ID question

I have seen ocean whitefish in malibu before, and your description sounds to me like whitefish. They may not be as plentiful as other fish in Malibu, but as Leo said, they can go wherever they please.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:31 PM   #6
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Re: Fish ID question

Maybe it was a yellowfin croaker?
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #7
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Re: Fish ID question

If they were YFC, then they would be HUGE YFC!
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #8
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Re: Fish ID question

I don't think I've ever seen a big school of whitefish and my sense is that they aren't really a schooling fish. It could have been a breeding aggregation or something. Was the school polarized, i.e. did all the fish swim together as one, or were they all just milling around in the same general vicinity? In my experience, it's more common to see some types of perch and croaker (wsb and others) swimming in unison.

When you say skittish, do you mean that they just wouldn't let you get close, or were they "jumpy" and moving quickly whenever you saw them? Whitefish tend to swim away if you get too close, but I think they're typically more relaxed on the bottom than croakers. In contrast, I've often seen schools of juvenile seabass swimming rapidly together like they were being chased by something.

Another difference is that you tend to see wsb higher in the water column than whitefish, which rarely stray more than a foot or so from the bottom.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:21 PM   #9
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Re: Fish ID question

I've seen ocean whitefish at a couple of spots in Malibu at around 30' so I wouldn't be surprised about that. However, I don't think they match your description. They look more light brown than silver underwater, 20-30" would be very large for them and, in my experience, they don't congregate in large schools (as apneanaut just posted).

Did the fish have any other markings? WSB of that size seem to have more pronounced dark bars.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:09 PM   #10
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Re: Fish ID question

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Maybe it was a yellowfin croaker?
Given the size and schooling pattern, maybe spotfin croakers? Those do get a fair amount larger than yellowfins do, and they do like to school up more than the yellowfins do too.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #11
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Re: Fish ID question

I don't get down to SoCal to freedive much. So, I have not seen any Ocean White Fish while freediving. Most of my trips to SoCal used to be for scuba on the cattle boats (Truth Aquatics, Peace Boat, etc.....), out to the Channels Islands. Every trip, I get at least 2 and multi-day trips, I get more than a half-dozen, all between 20" to 30". In all the times I have dove and found them, I have never seen them in a group of more than 3 (rare), but more than not, they are in pairs. I usually nail one of them. And these are one of my favorite fish to eat. If you saw them in a large school, then they were probably not ocean white fish. But I could be wrong.

One of the guys I dive with specifically targets these when he takes his buddies boat out to the islands to freedive. One of his favorite fish to eat also. His name is Alex Reynaud (alrolex72). He might be able to help answer the question.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #12
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Re: Fish ID question

they didnt look like YTC or WSM because the mouth definitely sloped sharply down like the whitefish, not out and pointy.

they had no markings, no dark bars, and were so silvery and hard to see i swear they looked liked ghosts in the water. they flashed silver when they turned in the water and had yellow tails.

there were at least 20 of them in a fairly tight school, first to the north of the big rock then on the other side, no deeper than 20' below the surface because i was on the surface both times i saw them. they were probably 10' off the bottom.

the fish were essentially head to tail, close together and pointed in the same direction. they seemed jumpy, not really relaxed at all, and stayed as a group although some were cutting back and forth from time to time.

as soon as one saw me it darted off, spooking the whole school, and they were gone. saw them about 30 minutes later on the other side of the rock.

it was very hazy so that may have affected how i saw their color (silver or light brown) and/or any bars, but i am 100% sure their mouths sloped sharply downwards and they had yellow tails.

i don't know how probable this is but after searching online i found a photo of juvenile dorado which were very similar. see attached. is that even possible??
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
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Re: Fish ID question

could very well be a jack mackerel. got a message from another spearo who has been seeing them around lately

silvery. split yellow tail. mouth isnt pointy. no bands. swim in schools. avg size is 21", grow to 30"

that said, whatever they were, thanks everyone. i'll shoot the next one i see so i won't waste everyone's time trying to ID it!
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #14
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Re: Fish ID question

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that said, whatever they were, thanks everyone. i'll shoot the next one i see so i won't waste everyone's time trying to ID it!

That negates the whole point of learning how to ID fish... not good practice to shoot things that you're not sure are edible/legal/etc.

You did the right thing not shooting first. Next time you see them, you'll have a mental bank of images to better ID in the field.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #15
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Re: Fish ID question

Most likely Juvi WSB or another croaker species. Juvi WSB hang in Malibu year round, 20-30 inches. I doubt you saw whitefish that shallow at big rock.
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