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Old 07-07-2014, 06:35 PM   #31
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

"So tell me about Miss West Virginia. Was she a large girl?...Big through the hips? Roomy?"
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:16 PM   #32
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

pier for fishing not swimming. fisherman should sue swimmer for interfering with his licensed and legal fishing activity. DFG is tasked to prevent people from obstructing hunting and fishing.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:52 PM   #33
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

Ladies, let's all just relax...
In reality, who really gives a crap? I for one don't, but it drives me crazy to see how much of an ass " rojodiablo" is. I'm tired of reading every thread and seeing your dull ass childish comments about everyone else. What a dick. Guys like you have made spearboard a freaking nesting ground for assholes...
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:51 PM   #34
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

a more responsible fisherman would have seen the swimmers coming and cut his line, out of an abundance of caution/concern.

a more responsible swimmer would have chosen another place to swim where sharks are less common and where people aren't fishing/getting animals angry.

a more responsible lifeguard crew would have seen the brewing train wreck of a situation and gotten the swimmers attention and stopped them from swimming towards the pier/hooked animal.

i bet all three parties listed above would do it differently, because their lives have definitely been changed in some way, and not for the better.

the thing is, no one can imagine this stuff happening until it does...
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:31 AM   #35
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapono View Post
Ladies, let's all just relax...
In reality, who really gives a crap? I for one don't, but it drives me crazy to see how much of an ass " rojodiablo" is. I'm tired of reading every thread and seeing your dull ass childish comments about everyone else. What a dick. Guys like you have made spearboard a freaking nesting ground for assholes...
Bag balm for your hurt feminine parts will soothe the burning.

Any way you slice it, the swimmer was in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Fishermen were working the fish, they have little control over said fish.

Now, from the 20ft. off the water view, its going to look like the swimmer went directly for the hooked fish; the fish did not go for the swimmer intentionally. Said shark is pretty much brainless, and fighting a pulling sensation on his mouth- nothing more.
From the swimmers' perspective, he's not going to easily see where he is headed. But suffice to say, he swam directly in front of a pier which was created for fishing. Did he ever get a glimpse of the shark ahead of him? Doubt it. Did his chaperone on the SUP see it? Are guides really paying attention at all in the first place????

The basis of my antagonization is in the response that the fishermen were criminally culpable, and civilly liable. Not to mention that it was advocated that since they had previously been in trouble, they should automatically get the book thrown at them. And more than one poster chimed this in, not to mention bringing outright incorrect interpretations of F&G laws to support their cries for prosecution (Persecution???) So yes, I called it out. And rightly so, ChasinButts responded in kind that he was not on the money. After that, it's down to opinion. And I'm still waiting for the others to come back with the verbiage from the F&G code to show me how wrong I am.

One fisherman of any kind attacking another fisherman, armed with no knowledge of the law itself is a downright simple way for non-fishermen to believe bad information. And let's not forget, there are trolls planted in here with that sole intention; to get divers to go after other divers, to get divers to go after fishermen, all in the name of self righteousness.

If I seem sometimes curt in my pointing out downright senseless use of F&G law applications, I'm not real sorry about that. I've already had 2 decades fighting for fishing in various forms, and I have SEEN firsthand what can go wrong when a fishermen who means well gets his emotions riled up because something attacks his personal sense of what should be allowed/ not allowed..... regardless of what is the law. Just because we do not like one thing or another- does not mean we should advocate persecution because were WE in charge of making laws, that's how we would do it.

Think about that part. The reality is; when a law is written by the DFG/DFW, it foes through quite a process of vetting to be sure malicious application of a law will not degrade a fisherman's liberty. So though we would LIKE certain rules be written in such and such a fashion..... it changes from that initial ideal to the more practical, and ENFORCEABLE law you will find on the books. Not to say it's a perfect system....... It's not.

And yeah; I have no tattoos. But I'm not going to go bandwagoning to throw the dirty inkie under the bus; that reeks of shit. Just like your crying.
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:33 AM   #36
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

Quote:
Originally Posted by shafe View Post
a more responsible fisherman would have seen the swimmers coming and cut his line, out of an abundance of caution/concern.

a more responsible swimmer would have chosen another place to swim where sharks are less common and where people aren't fishing/getting animals angry.

a more responsible lifeguard crew would have seen the brewing train wreck of a situation and gotten the swimmers attention and stopped them from swimming towards the pier/hooked animal.

i bet all three parties listed above would do it differently, because their lives have definitely been changed in some way, and not for the better.

the thing is, no one can imagine this stuff happening until it does...
You WIN.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:47 AM   #37
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

There is no overhead casting of the pier. The swimmers were clear of normal fishing, dropped lines of the side etc. The fact that sharks are common but not aggressive clearly makes it safe to swim, else the lifeguards would have closed the beach. Just to clarify a few points. The swimmer had done nothing wrong. In fact a few in the group were lifeguards. Chumming and targeting sharks and knowing gws are common in the area on the busiest weekend of the year for beach goers is very irresponsible no two ways about it. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
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Old 07-10-2014, 08:47 AM   #38
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

Because of this incident,
fishing is apparently banned on Manhattan Beach Pier until September 7, 2014.

The fisherman and family got involved in some interesting FaceBook discussions, here's a link:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Swell...m/340326115083
there was some interesting discussions and comments...
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:37 AM   #39
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

sorry if it's been posted elsewhere, but I haven't seen any response really from the swimmer? Is he acting aggressive and talking about suing everybody?

Is he trying to go after the city or the fisherman? Is the city the only one reacting to the situation?
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Old 07-10-2014, 08:01 PM   #40
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

He gave an interview. Seems like a really cool guy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/california-sw...survival-story

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer349 View Post
sorry if it's been posted elsewhere, but I haven't seen any response really from the swimmer? Is he acting aggressive and talking about suing everybody?

Is he trying to go after the city or the fisherman? Is the city the only one reacting to the situation?
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:36 PM   #41
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

This is a few days old now:

http://cdfgnews.wordpress.com/2014/0...an-beach-pier/
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:22 PM   #42
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

Regardless of whether or not the fisherman was criminally liable, this is the state of CA, where civil suits rule the day. With that in mind, it seems to me a good civil attorney could use this video to convince a civil jury that the fisherman caused the shark's behavior and is therefore liable for the attack and resulting injuries. (The laughing and total lack of concern heard on the tape would be killer in court...)
To me it doesn't matter what your opinion is of whether or not the swimmers should be swimming there. The fact is that they were there. These folks knew what they had hooked, and were very much amuzed by the fact that their hooked shark was trying to escape amongst the unsuspecting swimmers.
To me, if they had cut the line as soon as they saw what was happening, then if a swimmer got hit, at least they tried. Since they kept the shark on the line, and laughed their a$$es off about it, I wouldn't get too upset to hear that the law firm of "Dewey, Screwum, and Howe", went after them for some $$$.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:15 PM   #43
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post

The basis of my antagonization is in the response that the fishermen were criminally culpable, and civilly liable. Not to mention that it was advocated that since they had previously been in trouble, they should automatically get the book thrown at them. And more than one poster chimed this in, not to mention bringing outright incorrect interpretations of F&G laws to support their cries for prosecution (Persecution???) So yes, I called it out. And rightly so, ChasinButts responded in kind that he was not on the money. After that, it's down to opinion. And I'm still waiting for the others to come back with the verbiage from the F&G code to show me how wrong I am.

One fisherman of any kind attacking another fisherman, armed with no knowledge of the law itself is a downright simple way for non-fishermen to believe bad information. And let's not forget, there are trolls planted in here with that sole intention; to get divers to go after other divers, to get divers to go after fishermen, all in the name of self righteousness.

If I seem sometimes curt in my pointing out downright senseless use of F&G law applications, I'm not real sorry about that. I've already had 2 decades fighting for fishing in various forms, and I have SEEN firsthand what can go wrong when a fishermen who means well gets his emotions riled up because something attacks his personal sense of what should be allowed/ not allowed..... regardless of what is the law. Just because we do not like one thing or another- does not mean we should advocate persecution because were WE in charge of making laws, that's how we would do it.

Think about that part. The reality is; when a law is written by the DFG/DFW, it foes through quite a process of vetting to be sure malicious application of a law will not degrade a fisherman's liberty. So though we would LIKE certain rules be written in such and such a fashion..... it changes from that initial ideal to the more practical, and ENFORCEABLE law you will find on the books. Not to say it's a perfect system....... It's not.
A lot of people have been asking me about this event and about the "illegal" fishing this guy was doing

I would encourage every new and old guy to defend our rights to fish !!
there are way to many people which would like to see them taken away

just remember all those lagunatics that rubbed our face in the fact that young guys were taking Garibaldi by spear as the justification to ban all fishing on THEIR BEACH and won !

it's unfortunate that some people use bad judgement
Its unfortunate that inexperienced people make tragic mistakes
but its the unseen crime of influence that takes away our constitutional rights


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...707-story.html

During the 60 days, city officials will also consult the State Coastal Commission, which has jurisdiction on the state-owned pier; Los Angeles County, whose lifeguards patrol the beaches; and local marine experts, Powell said.

The announcement came just hours after People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals called for a permanent fishing ban on the pier
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:41 PM   #44
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

You guys that think he should of cut his line just because he had a big fish on are completely RETARDED.
A- Any fish trailing a bunch of mono/spectra will die, GWS or not.
B. Mako and Thresher sharks are completely possible options for the pier, both are completely legal to fish for and pretty much go for the same types of rigs/bait off the pier. Sometimes you don't get to see the fish until it's already ready to be netted/gaffed.

Although I don't feel as they should of laughed about the dude getting bit, they did nothing wrong. Shit happens. I've had many big threshers take me through surfers and nobody ever got hurt, and I got to come home with some quality meat.

Time to pick a side, either go hug a tree and cry about a freak accident or stand behind our equally (and even moreso) persecuted H&L brothers. There's a war going on out there and the more we give in to bullshit like this, the easier it will be to make more of our rights away....
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:49 PM   #45
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Re: gws attack in Manhattan beach

the other thing that bothers me is all this rationalization of the GWS behavior

I read that the GWS was panicked in the papers
and someone posted that the animal must have been scared because the GWS are always there and don't ever behave like this or why would a shark that is fighting to get away bite ?

first panic is a higher mammal behavior implying that a natural or conditioned behavioral response is modified as a result of an incorrect interplay between the primitive brain and the cortical rational brain. to think a GWS can panic is going back to the same line of bullshit that makes people think that fish feel pain.

sharks do exactly what millions of years of evolution has predictably programmed them to do environmental stimulus brings to the surface programmed responses and influences future behavior through conditioning

The reason why surfers are not troubled by juveniles in MB has to do with where they are in the water column and programmed predator prey relationships at the animals age of maturity and nothing to do with them ever being safe or used to being around people

was this shark aroused or agitated by the fishermans stimulus yes
was the shark further aroused by the violent muscle twitching of the approaching swimmer yes
was the sharks behavior modified by being pulled up in the water column by the fishing line fight yes

did the shark intentionally bite the swimmer ?

trick question

No
the shark is not capable of having intentions only predictable behaviors
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