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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 07-08-2008, 04:09 PM   #31
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Just printed out copies and will post at SQ Brandon tonight when I pick up my tanks. Thanks for the heades up Sheri!
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:32 PM   #32
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Sheri, I had another dive flag related issue today. I was idling back into the boat basin of Keys Marine Lab (Long Key) when I noticed a guy snorkeling around our little "channel." He had tied his fishing pole to the pvc pipe marking the channel, along with a bait bucket and was snorkeling just outside of the channel. I shouted to him until he surfaced and told him that it was required by law to have a dive flag. He sat up, paused and said "EVEN SNORKELING?" To which my responce was, "YES. You need to mark where you are in the water so passing boats don't hit you and can avoid you." He said ok but prolly went back on his merry way.

That encounter got me to thinking. Anyone who spends even a remotely regular amount of time on the water, especially as a diver/freediver/spearfisher/etc, knows what a dive flag is. This is especially the case with people who live near the water. (At least I would like to think my previous two assumptions are true). But the term "DIVE FLAG" might be misleading to someone who doesn't live near water, only gets to go out on the water a few times a year (or even in a lifetime), or is from a foreign country (not that they don't have dive flag laws). The term DIVE FLAG might make them assume it is meant ONLY for divers, and not for snorkelers as well. Not that it is a very GOOD excuse, but I can see how someone could think that. Any way to apply a term to go w/dive flag, or something more universal?
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:54 PM   #33
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Nailman, thanks!

Pirate Diver, yes, snorkelers do need to have a flag too. You would think that is obvious if you are in the water with boats buzzing around you! But I don't know if renaming it to something different than "dive flag" would help. I think it all goes back to awareness and education.....hopefully not from more accidents.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:20 PM   #34
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

I was out today freediving. Majority of boat simple buzz by and don't even notice the dive flag.

I think my next dive flag will be a huge STOP SIGN flag or SLOW DOWN flag instead.

That way everyone knows to "slow down."
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:46 PM   #35
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Smile Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheri View Post
Here is what we have been asked to do....can you guys make sure this petition form (below) is at your local dive shop, dive club meeting, etc? Then please mail the form with signatures by July 16, 2008, to:

FWC
attn: Lt. Dave Bingham
8535 North Lake Blvd
West Palm Beach, FL 33412
OK everyone, we need to keep pumping this up. Only two more days left!

Sunday, I found the following partial page results on the two petitions I left at the Riviera Beach Force E Dive shop. This is fair results and I plan to pick them up on Wednesday and mail them to Lt. Bingham. I will also get them from all then other locations I dropped them at. Any of you can also print the form out and sign your single signature and mail it in.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:19 PM   #36
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

I talked to Lt. Bingham and the Dive Flag Awareness detail is being deployed this coming weekend. They will have boats flying dive flags and will use their laser radar detection devices to issue tickets to boaters that come within 300 feet. They have Steve Waters from the Sun-Sentinel on board a boat, and they expect that Miami Herald and Channel 7 to cover this again like last year. By the way, make sure you stay within 300 feet of your flag! Personally, I don't get more than 150 feet away anymore.

Whether the Gov of Florida declares this an official weekend every year depends on the number of signatures on the petitions (thanks to those who helped!) and all the comments on this thread. If you have a personal experience to add, or some supportive comments, now would be the time to post them. I believe the State Cabinet will be voting on this at the end of this month. Dive safe!

A big huge thanks to FWC and Lt. Bingham for helping to increase diver safety!!!
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:27 PM   #37
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

That's great Sheri!

I mailed in a sheet & a half myself, about 50 names, and got 3 dive shops onboard.
I'd love to see the FWC get enough funding for a west FL coast program as well. I'm sure the St Pete Times would cover it.

You said the Lt is doing it the 19th & 20th... not the weekend before Sportsman's Season right? (Which is the 26th... also the Palm Beach BS Open.)

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Old 07-18-2008, 09:10 PM   #38
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Yes, it's this coming weekend, July 19 and 20.

Talked to Lt. Bingham today, and he's only received four letters with 84 signatures total. He's disappointed and asked that we keep mailing them in. It'll still help if they get more in the next week or two.
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:14 PM   #39
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

FWC ran their Dive Flag Awareness operation this weekend, and they considered it a success. They issued more tickets this year, even though they had fewer boats and less time on the water due to several issues. More importantly, the story ran in the Sun-Sentinel, Miami Herald, and Channel 10 news which serves to increase awareness.

The closest boat was 170 feet away (supposed to be 300), and the closest jet ski was 183 feet. Lt. Bingham said they had a jet ski that came within 10 feet of divers, but FWC was busy handling a "speared lobster" case, so the jet skiers got away. If the photos they took of them come out clear enough, they might still be able to charge them.

Lt. Bingham made a point of asking boaters why they had run so close to the dive flag. Their responses were usually, "didn't see it", or "didn't know what the law is", or "thought I was far enough away". This works both ways, so some divers were also ticketed for being more than 300 feet from their flag or having an improperly displayed flag.

FWC is still hoping that Gov Crist makes a Dive Flag Awareness Weekend proclamation after the proposal gets presented to the Cabinet on July 29. It's not too late to send in more petitions with signatures. We're looking weak in that area! Comments and stories on this thread also help.

If the proclamation passes, Lt. Bingham said he will look into what it takes to post more signs like the one in SpearMax's picture and also hand out brochures that explain dive flag laws at boat ramps.

Thanks again to FWC!
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Old 07-20-2008, 10:05 PM   #40
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Sheri, on Saturday I collected more pages with signatures at two more dive shops I had placed them at. I will mail them Monday to Lt. Bingham. Keep up the good work and let us all know what happens. Thanks, Tony
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:43 AM   #41
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Media coverage can help much I think: showing the divers' flag on TV et cetera.
Over here (Italy) we've had a pretty wide media coverage three years ago when divers and spearos "marched" together in the first ever Underwater Protest Rally.

The local media liked it a lot: "A protest rally taking place underwater? Scoop!". From the media mentality, they thought that the event could be silly, unusual and weird enough to be considered as "news". But actually that wasn't silly at all IMO.

In practice we swam in dozens from the beach to the harbour, carrying our floats and buoys, and finally took a press conference while we where still in the water by the docks, where we told journalists about the dangers of boats, the stories of our buds being hit or scared, the casualties, et cetera et cetera. We did not solve the problem of course, but TV's and papers have been talking about the boats vs. divers issue for some days to follow, and you know every bit counts.
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:24 PM   #42
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Excellent thread and great work Sheri.

This is a serious issue everywhere. It made me think about what are the possible major causes.

1. boater ignorance - boater's just don't know what the dive flag means (and hence may "investigate"). I've seen this happen. I live in a state where you have to take a class and pass a test to get a boater's certification to run a boat, and you learn about dive flags, but some states do not have this. I wish every state would make this mandatory. This site compares states in regards to boater education requirements http://www.americasboatingcourse.com...oating_law.htm


2. boater inattention - as mentioned earlier, "pleasure" craft/floating barstools often are operating at high speed and combine that with drinking on the water you have a dangerous situation. I don't know the solution to that except tougher penalties for violations. Maybe find a way to target the "cruising" contingent with awareness materials, maybe at boat shows or through marine dealers.

3. point to point navigation - I've seen this so often it's often obvious that a boat is using ATNs (aid to navigation/buoys/etc) as their gps waypoints when travelling distances, and not being terribly attentive as to what is in the water ahead of them. Perhaps just avoiding these immediate areas may help.

4. flag size - sometimes on the water the flag someone is flying is quite small, and hard to see, or faded or torn or not flown high enough. Big and high is much better than small and low. The earlier comment about full size flags was a good one. Every once in a while I"ll see one that is huge, and flown very high, and extremely visible - that is great.

5. boater awareness - I wonder if many boaters genuinelly forget how close they can come to a dive flag if they did learn it, and don't realize the seriousness of it. Signs and awareness materials at marinas and public ramps may go far as a reminder and help. I wonder if it could be made a part of spontaneous boater safety checks by the CG, etc - you get a sticker to put in a prominent place as a reminder about dive flags.

6. yaks - I've had a yak for a long time now - it's fire-engine lime green and visible. Yaks are hard to see on the water and there is a reason boaters refer to them as sea lice - kind of defines their attitude toward them. I see yaks that are dark colors (green, blue, brown) and not visible - not good. At the very least selecting a yak in a bright color (yellow, orange) and flying the largest flag you can may help.

7. reporting an incident - I would not be shy about reporting a vessel that came too close. They need that experience, and will also surely tell their other boater friends, and so lives may be saved in the future as a result.
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Last edited by Calypso; 09-11-2008 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:50 AM   #43
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Just for clarification: You may encroach within the 300 feet of a diver's down flag, as long as you are under minimal power, just enough to maintain control of the vessel. This is important because, divers sometimes will dive multiple vessels on a spot, like a wreck. Sometimes the divers down flag is misused, where a diver pushes a fisherman off of a wreck using the flag. In any case, although the ideal intent is to keep other boats out of the 300 ft radius, it is not illegal to encroach, as long as you are maintaining headway and steerage at a safe minimal speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FS 327.331
(6) Any vessel other than a law enforcement or rescue vessel that approaches within 100 feet of a divers-down flag on a river, inlet, or navigation channel, or within 300 feet of a divers-down flag on waters other than a river, inlet, or navigation channel, must proceed no faster than is necessary to maintain headway and steerageway.
http://www.floridaconservation.org/B...iving_flag.htm
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:39 PM   #44
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Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Tyler, you are right, that's the reason why the FWC had to be able to prove the distance and speed of the offenders in order to have a citation hold up.

I wonder if the law would not be better served if it included a sub-distance of 100 feet where no encroachment was allowable at any speed by a vessel other than the flag flying dive boat.

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Old 09-13-2008, 08:02 PM   #45
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Wink Re: Dive Flag Awareness!!! NEED YOUR INPUT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
Just for clarification: You may encroach within the 300 feet of a diver's down flag, as long as you are under minimal power, just enough to maintain control of the vessel. This is important because, divers sometimes will dive multiple vessels on a spot, like a wreck. Sometimes the divers down flag is misused, where a diver pushes a fisherman off of a wreck using the flag. In any case, although the ideal intent is to keep other boats out of the 300 ft radius, it is not illegal to encroach, as long as you are maintaining headway and steerage at a safe minimal speed.



http://www.floridaconservation.org/B...iving_flag.htm
Very good point Steve!

Lots of spearos and other boaters do not realize that accurate reading of the law.
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