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Old 05-30-2018, 09:37 AM   #16
Marco
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Re: Salvimar Hero

That's probably the reason why they released the new model just after one year.

I've seen the same mistake lately with several manufacturers; they release products to the market without proper field testing, resulting in poor quality products that then must be fixed/changed.

It's like a race to release new products, now matter if they work properly or not. Just to get our money...

Good luck with your purchase. My friend is very happy with it. He just says that the bands are kind of long. But that's normal with a product that is mass produced. You can always cut them a bit.
He also says that the gun is not the best to swing around, but with that shape/mass is something you can expect.

One question about your pictures: don't you think it's normal to have some wear between two surfaces of different hardness? The shaft is 17-4 PH and the sear is 316 if I'm not wrong.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:18 AM   #17
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Re: Salvimar Hero

The close up pictures I put up are of the trigger sear, this has no interaction with the shaft notch and doesn't even touch the shaft. It interacts only with the roller of the shaft sear. The indentations you see are due to the front part of the shaft sear with roller getting squashed into the trigger sear. This is why the trigger pull is so difficult ... the geometry is just wrong. It is off by so much that the shaft sear arms are actually interacting with the trigger sear and by passing the roller ... and thus for the trigger to break through the roller sear arms need to power through the trigger sear under load! On my 3D computer simulation, the front of the shaft sear is overlapping into the trigger sear! This was probably done to soak up the large tolerances used to ensure that the sears and rollers will rotate freely. Most likely this overlap was done as a guesstimate. Italians tend to be very suspicious of 3D drawings and 3D simulations for some reason prefer to do 3D in their "head". Well ... I can tell you from experience that this does not work so well. It took me about an hour to recreate the drawings for this trigger and put it in a 3D simulation ... if I had the Salvimar drawings it would have taken 5 minutes. One quick look at section analysis and you immediately see problems. You wouldn't even need to fire a single shot.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:58 PM   #18
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Re: Salvimar Hero

"Italians"?

Your statement is very broad... Does Ferrari, Da Vinci, Galilei, Volta, Marconi, Michelangelo, Fermi, Pininfarina, Lamborghini, etc, brings something to your mind? It is very easy to criticize other people creations.

You have become very popular in this board and lots of people takes your statements as facts. You should be a little more careful on what you write here. There's people that makes a living on spearfishing/spearfishing products and your opinions can do some damage. Don't you think?

Where are you from, btw?
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:08 AM   #19
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Lol ... I think you misunderstood that this was a friendly jab at Mario from Ermessub and 2 other italians I collaborate with sometimes with spearfishing stuff. This is a running joke between us that while italians are great at innovations and beautiful artistic creations, they tend to lose interest in the boring work of getting that design through a battery of reliability tests. The 3D in the "mind" was a common suggestion used by all of them whenever I ask them if they have put a concept in a computer simulation or through heavy testing to make sure there are no problems. I certainly don't mean that as a slight against italians or italian design ... the world would be a much less beautiful place without their input! But I can see how my post translated poorly.

As for Salvimar and hurting them in their spearfishing products. I just bought about $2000 worth of Salvimar stuff last week, so I consider myself as a supporter rather than someone trying to hurt them ... it is just that I think they dropped the ball here. They went out of their way to create a very nice product, pulling all the plugs out to get a high quality handle and using MIM for the trigger sears (I think only Sporasub did that before) ... then for some reason skipped the heavy testing phase of the production version (which many times can be very different than the design version). I have no doubt that by giving honest feedback that it will be helpful in them fixing their product.

I got a couple of questions from people regarding what I am talking about and I think the clearest way is to just put up the 3D simulation illustrations. The imprint of the roller and the 2 arms holding the roller are in exactly the same location as the 3D simulation shows. You can see the tolerance spaces used, and really it is just very obvious that this needs to be modified to get it to work well. And even then, I think that you need to put this through a heavy live firing session using heavy loads and multiple shots.

Illustrations are Trigger loaded at rest, then cross section, then 20 degree rotation (fire position), then close up of contact surfaces during firing. The rest position looks wrong because the sears are on top of each other ... but that is designed that way because of the tolerances added around pins to ensure proper rotation ... but this really needs a lot of trial and error to get correct as the tolerances are not always the same. With a friction trigger the sears just slip a little higher or a little lower and can soak up tolerance ... but with a roller this doesn't work well. There should be a better way to "soak up" tolerance ... but MIM is very high precision and maybe these big tolerances are just not needed.










Last edited by spearq8; 06-01-2018 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:23 AM   #20
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
Lol ... I think you misunderstood that this was a friendly jab at Mario from Ermessub and 2 other italians I collaborate with sometimes with spearfishing stuff. This is a running joke between us that while italians are great at innovations and beautiful artistic creations, they tend to lose interest in the boring work of getting that design through a battery of reliability tests. The 3D in the "mind" was a common suggestion used by all of them whenever I ask them if they have put a concept in a computer simulation or through heavy testing to make sure there are no problems. I certainly don't mean that as a slight against italians or italian design ... the world would be a much less beautiful place without their input! But I can see how my post translated poorly.

As for Salvimar and hurting them in their spearfishing products. I just bought about $2000 worth of Salvimar stuff last week, so I consider myself as a supporter rather than someone trying to hurt them ... it is just that I think they dropped the ball here. They went out of their way to create a very nice product, pulling all the plugs out to get a high quality handle and using MIM for the trigger sears (I think only Sporasub did that before) ... then for some reason skipped the heavy testing phase of the production version (which many times can be very different than the design version). I have no doubt that by giving honest feedback that it will be helpful in them fixing their product.

I got a couple of questions from people regarding what I am talking about and I think the clearest way is to just put up the 3D simulation illustrations. The imprint of the roller and the 2 arms holding the roller are in exactly the same location as the 3D simulation shows. You can see the tolerance spaces used, and really it is just very obvious that this needs to be modified to get it to work well. And even then, I think that you need to put this through a heavy live firing session using heavy loads and multiple shots.

Illustrations are Trigger loaded at rest, then cross section, then 20 degree rotation (fire position), then close up of contact surfaces during firing. The rest position looks wrong because the sears are on top of each other ... but that is designed that way because of the tolerances added around pins to ensure proper rotation ... but this really needs a lot of trial and error to get correct as the tolerances are not always the same. With a friction trigger the sears just slip a little higher or a little lower and can soak up tolerance ... but with a roller this doesn't work well. There should be a better way to "soak up" tolerance ... but MIM is very high precision and maybe these big tolerances are just not needed.









Is this 3d testing for the Hero handle or the old handle?
Anyone field tested this Gun yet? Looks the goods on utube vids

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Old 06-01-2018, 02:24 PM   #21
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco View Post
"Italians"?



Where are you from, btw?
Al Ansari is from Koweit ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
Lol ...

As for Salvimar and hurting them in their spearfishing products. I just bought about $2000 worth of Salvimar stuff last week, so I consider myself as a supporter rather than someone trying to hurt them .

Last edited by SpearMax; 06-02-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 06-01-2018, 07:21 PM   #22
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Really ztaz?
Me mates got a Salvimar wetsuit. Had it for years.


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Old 06-01-2018, 08:51 PM   #23
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Re: Salvimar Hero

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Originally Posted by tottenham View Post
Really ztaz?
Me mates got a Salvimar wetsuit. Had it for years.


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happy for you , seems they stay only 1 week without being torn in my country !
for the guns they are the no1 guns who's owners try to resell after purchase
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:48 AM   #24
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Re: Salvimar Hero

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Originally Posted by z1taz View Post
happy for you , seems they stay only 1 week without being torn in my country !
for the guns they are the no1 guns who's owners try to resell after purchase
My friend got a salvimar for a year and he is still using now.Got a salvimar pipe gun and still using it.Didn't see any problem.Contrary, all of my friends got BWKS speargun and they sold it.Just don't know why.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:24 AM   #25
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Re: Salvimar Hero

SpearQ8, I’m a bit confused. Are the handles and triggers you bought and have been testing are they the same handle that comes with the salvimar hero?
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:42 AM   #26
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Shouldn’t we put things in perspective and first have a look at the performance of guns with their original setup before we start increasing the power (potentially overpowering them) and drawing conclusions that may be biased?

My simple question is this. How is the Hero performing out of the box? Maybe the trigger is not meant to be used with such a load?


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Old 06-02-2018, 07:20 AM   #27
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Quote:
Originally Posted by z1taz View Post
Al Ansari is from Koweit ....



Only stupids would buy to Salvimar ! one from the worse brand in spearfishing !
Kuwait not Koweit. We use Q8 for short as in spearq8 or majdq8 on youtube. As for me being stupid for buying all this Salvimar stuff ... maybe, I will see. Those triggers on those handles were definitely a bad start. I do love their wetsuits and rash guards (have been using them for years with no problems). Also like their knives and rubber weight belts. They have a new dive watch coming out that seems to be getting good reviews. I did have very bad experience with their spearguns and shafts a few years back ... the guns would fall apart very quickly and the wired shark fins on their shafts would slip off the wishbones very easily. But they seem to have gotten their act together ... the handle seems really well made (except for the trigger of course). Also the new shafts seem to have some laser welded shark fins that look interesting. They seem to have gotten out of their way trying to get their act together. I think this trigger issue is very easy to fix and you have to give them credit for trying to bring MIM to triggers.

Quote:
SpearQ8, I’m a bit confused. Are the handles and triggers you bought and have been testing are they the same handle that comes with the salvimar hero?
No they are not, they are for the Salvimar Metal handle, which is a different version trigger than the Hero version. I thought that they used the same trigger, but from the pictures it is clear that the Hero has a roller trigger that looks the same from the outside, but has slightly different internals. Also reading the literature more closely, they have a rating for the Hero as being 350kg while for the Metal it is 250kg plus. Salvimar has been very cagey about that and the local dealer told me it uses the same sears ... maybe they also don't know. Of course it makes zero sense to make an MIM mould for two different triggers as the major cost in producing something in MIM is the cost of the MIM moulds ... so it would have been cheaper to just make both triggers for the higher rating. More likely is that the Hero is a newer version, which has gone through the cycle of fixing the problems found on the first version. I will try and get the Hero version and test it.

Quote:
Shouldn’t we put things in perspective and first have a look at the performance of guns with their original setup before we start increasing the power (potentially overpowering them) and drawing conclusions that may be biased?
Yes, but I tested the Metal trigger with 2 x 14mm bands at 350% and only 10 shots. Not sure what loading that is, but most likely it is around 160 lb of band load or about 70 kg of loading. The Salvimar Metal trigger is rated at 250kg plus ... or more than 3.5x the loading I used.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:23 PM   #28
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Re: Salvimar Hero

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Originally Posted by cro3 View Post
I’m real interested in this gun. Any reviews would be greatly appreciated.
I picked up a 75cm and 95cm from Benthic in Destin. They shoot great. Very quiet with the teflon track. The handle is really comfortable. They are all supplied with really nice laser welded, thicker shafts. The line wraps really nice on the muzzle and the bands lay very flat along the gun. The line release is heavy duty and accommodates multiple wraps and/or a break away adapter. The molded in line guides divert the lines away from the bands. It has a really beefed up, heavy duty trigger than other rail guns I've used. The trigger pull is clean and smooth under a heavy load. It comes with a pretty decent horizontal reel that I swapped out for a Meandros vertical reel (all my guns have vertical reels).
All and all, Salvimar combined all the winning features of other guns, rail and wood into one gun and they did it nicely.
I give it two thumbs up.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:57 AM   #29
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Bump

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Old 08-12-2018, 11:08 AM   #30
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Re: Salvimar Hero

Just purchased a Hero 115. Hopefully get it in the water in a week or 2. On the surface, great looking well thought out gun.
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