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Old 10-15-2015, 02:24 PM   #16
100days-a-year
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

The other other guy is whoever figured recreational anglers got in 2 months what they ha e in the last several years combined. Not that hog fish don't need a little help down south.
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:49 PM   #17
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

My suggestion to everyone is to check your state laws and forget about FEDERAL regulations!
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:19 PM   #18
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

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Originally Posted by Summerland Key View Post
Before anyone gets too worked up over the commercial sector remaining open for hogfish while the recreational sector is closed -- look at the numbers. There really are not that many commercial snapper/grouper fishermen remaining in the South Atlantic, and there will be less as time goes by (2 for one permit requirement -- non transferable limited permits). Even less of the total numbers of permits are owned by divers. The allowable catch limit (ACL) is much higher for recreational fishermen, as Vic correctly pointed out. The commercial ACL has not been met, but the recreational has been exceeded.
It is always easier to blame the "other guy" for problems in our fisheries. This time the other guy is clearly the recreational sector -- especially in South Florida and the Keys.
Summerland Key, it seems that the SAFMC believes that the commercial guys kill 69% of the hogfish in the SAFMC (GA-NC) region. They are discussing new allocations of 69% commercial and 31% recreational at the next meeting... So, if your premise is true, that commercial guys are killing less than recreationals, then why are they getting twice the allocation?
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:49 PM   #19
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

Too easy to back door the fish with no paperwork. Not sayin all do, but I know that it is going on. Not fair to recs. I do not believe that recs harvested more Hogfish than comms here in GA. There are very few divers here that venture out to 100'. I harvest around 6 big ones a year. Most of them after August when they frequent water 90 to 110 feet. After around September, they move back out to deeper water. Now, our season is closed before it starts.
We are only allowed 3 Grouper per person per day only one can be a Gag or Black.
We have only 2 Groupers common off of GA. Gags & Scamp. The Scamp are wiped out by the charter boats pretty early, so we are left with Gags.
We are, effectively, only allowed 1 grouper per person per day.
We only have Red Snapper in abundance here. Some others are available like vermilion & a Cubera now & then. There are so many Red Snapper, you almost can't get a shot at anything else!
Closed indefinitely!
Cobia?
Closed.
There is no reason to go out of Savannah except for Lionfish & Black Sea Bass!
Not very fair that we are stuck with nothing while the comms keep on trucking.
No, I do not think we will be following the SAFMC laws anymore.
We know more about managing a sustainable fishery than all of those recently graduated, paid for government scientists.
I guess it will be civil disobedience.
Just an opinion.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:55 PM   #20
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

skinneej:
I was not very clear in my post, sorry about that. I was referring to the allocation in our area, which is from the Ga. Fl. border to shark point in the gulf (including Tortugas). Hogfish have been separated out into three different stocks -- NC. to Ga. -- Ga. Fl border to Shark point -- Shark point to Brownsville Texas. So, you are correct the Ga. NC stock is allocated to mostly commercial. But, the stock where I live (Fl, Keys) is allocated mainly to the recreational sector. And I do not know how the gulf stock was finally allocated.
The entire hogfish issue is a disaster, which could have been avoided had the council (South Atlantic) acted appropriately years ago when the AP recommended a size limit increase. Everyone was in agreement that 12 inches was too small. But the council was determined to wait for a stock assessment to be completed and they got a negative assessment, something the AP hoped to avoid by being proactive with a modest size limit increase. Once again, common sense has no place in fisheries management. Unless it can be factored into a highly complex stock assessment equation -- it is useless information. Don
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:12 PM   #21
skinneej
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

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Originally Posted by brailediver View Post
Too easy to back door the fish with no paperwork. Not sayin all do, but I know that it is going on. Not fair to recs. I do not believe that recs harvested more Hogfish than comms here in GA. There are very few divers here that venture out to 100'. I harvest around 6 big ones a year. Most of them after August when they frequent water 90 to 110 feet. After around September, they move back out to deeper water. Now, our season is closed before it starts.
We are only allowed 3 Grouper per person per day only one can be a Gag or Black.
We have only 2 Groupers common off of GA. Gags & Scamp. The Scamp are wiped out by the charter boats pretty early, so we are left with Gags.
We are, effectively, only allowed 1 grouper per person per day.
We only have Red Snapper in abundance here. Some others are available like vermilion & a Cubera now & then. There are so many Red Snapper, you almost can't get a shot at anything else!
Closed indefinitely!
Cobia?
Closed.
There is no reason to go out of Savannah except for Lionfish & Black Sea Bass!
Not very fair that we are stuck with nothing while the comms keep on trucking.
No, I do not think we will be following the SAFMC laws anymore.
We know more about managing a sustainable fishery than all of those recently graduated, paid for government scientists.
I guess it will be civil disobedience.
Just an opinion.
I live in SC... Sure, I know that there are few recreational divers, but divers are what it takes to get hogs... They are seldom caught on R&R in our areas... So, that begs the question, how many commercial DIVE boats do you see in your area? I only know of 2 (but likely at least a few more).
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:16 PM   #22
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

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Originally Posted by Summerland Key View Post
skinneej:
I was not very clear in my post, sorry about that. I was referring to the allocation in our area, which is from the Ga. Fl. border to shark point in the gulf (including Tortugas). Hogfish have been separated out into three different stocks -- NC. to Ga. -- Ga. Fl border to Shark point -- Shark point to Brownsville Texas. So, you are correct the Ga. NC stock is allocated to mostly commercial. But, the stock where I live (Fl, Keys) is allocated mainly to the recreational sector. And I do not know how the gulf stock was finally allocated.
The entire hogfish issue is a disaster, which could have been avoided had the council (South Atlantic) acted appropriately years ago when the AP recommended a size limit increase. Everyone was in agreement that 12 inches was too small. But the council was determined to wait for a stock assessment to be completed and they got a negative assessment, something the AP hoped to avoid by being proactive with a modest size limit increase. Once again, common sense has no place in fisheries management. Unless it can be factored into a highly complex stock assessment equation -- it is useless information. Don
Don, thanks for the clarification. I'm still confused as to how they came up with 69% for commercial in my region (GA-NC). Are there really that many commercial dive boats operating up this way? And, one of the "regulars" (Reef Raider) that I have heard of comes from Florida. When they report catch, doesn't it show up as Florida catch since that is home port?

As to minimum size limit. I agree with you. I think 15" is probably a good target for the Keys, but they can't do that overnight or the entire thing will shut down. They need to go up to 13" for 2 years, 14" for 2 years, and then settle at 15" and let that bake in to see what happens. But if they go to 16" overnight, that virtually closes the fishery in the keys from my own observations.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:14 PM   #23
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Re: Recreational Harvest of Hogfish in South Atlantic Waters Closes on August 24, 201

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Originally Posted by skinneej View Post
Don, thanks for the clarification. I'm still confused as to how they came up with 69% for commercial in my region (GA-NC). Are there really that many commercial dive boats operating up this way? And, one of the "regulars" (Reef Raider) that I have heard of comes from Florida. When they report catch, doesn't it show up as Florida catch since that is home port?

As to minimum size limit. I agree with you. I think 15" is probably a good target for the Keys, but they can't do that overnight or the entire thing will shut down. They need to go up to 13" for 2 years, 14" for 2 years, and then settle at 15" and let that bake in to see what happens. But if they go to 16" overnight, that virtually closes the fishery in the keys from my own observations.
The commercial log books (required by NMFS) require the captain/vessel owner to submit a form for each trip, which will show what section the fish were caught in. So, it does not really matter where you land for the federal record keepers as the log book should show where the fish were caught. The state is a little different. If you do not fill out the federal forms and submit them on time your federal license is not renewed (until you submit the forms properly).

As far as the size limit increase we did recommend an incremental size increase as you suggested, but it obviously fell on deaf ears with the Council. I am still a bit ticked off about the hogfish fiasco and the council as we tried to avoid this at the AP level numerous times, but got nowhere.

I am not on the AP any longer as the Council finally imposed term limits. So, after 26 years of being on the snapper/grouper AP (no pay) I am off. I think it is good to get new faces and new ideas, and I have no problem with term limits. Now, if we could just get term limits imposed for the US Congress!

Last edited by Summerland Key; 06-08-2016 at 05:18 PM.
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