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Diving Safety, Accidents and Incidents Post here to discuss accidents, incidents, ideas, gear, or anything else to improve spearfishing safety. Memorials and condolences threads should be placed in that separate forum.

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Old 01-03-2016, 10:02 AM   #1
kehloken
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Rebreather's Will Kill You

Statistically rebreather will kill you like any diving, yet the rebreather community tries to keep it quiet at all accidents. They have a very small amount of people willing to spend that kind of money and that amount of time for diving.
As I just looked at this latest recreational diver Patric nichols who died off Catalina island. He has been diving the rebreather for a few years now.
As he reached out to the forum rebreather world, he got no response nor did he further into the discussions anywhere else on rebreather world.
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showt...chols-new-user

A lot of the forums that have rebreather's and technical diving you have to opt in and be let into the discussions.

A guy I knew years ago was an extremely well oriented guy around the rebreather's and instructed them and died a little over a year ago, the final answer was designer fault. Ron Aekeson did several charters a year and was very much top of the game for rebreather's and technical diving in the state of Washington. Just like anything else most the people that deal with them walked away and quit diving rebreather's and diving in general.

There was a doctor's name was Mark something that was on my island that died a few years ago on a rebreather in the Great Lakes, which stopped his team of divers from diving anymore they were selling off their equipment and they were done.
Not sure what makes everyone just quit diving because they were on location when it happened. I can only think that since they're such a harsh outcome that most of the time these people find out and know that the rebreather's just are not safe.
About a decade ago there was a diver that was a Padi IDC director, he was only 30 years old at the time of his death, he was in Florida on rebreather spearfishing, Pretty wild dude I've known him for a while.
I remember Robert Meister would gather extreme divers together and have a little talk and trying get them to join his diving extravaganzas. The one in particular That I remember was when It would do an archaeological diving And the waves would come up into like tidal waves all of a sudden And because of this there was shipped on top of ship on top of ship.
Everything was filmed live to the country president. You have this aluminum boat that he had built in this thing would go backwards and extreme speed and then spin around and take off and out run these tidal waves. So you would get called to come up and get on this boat before this happened.
Myself I thought no problem, and I asked what are the other dangers, well come to find out sharks would attack and kill the divers. It was pretty much a 2% chance you would live.
No doubt though if you did live to tell about it would be an awesome experience. This was almost 20 years ago.
Some years later Zack popped in on all this kind of diving which I know for sure made him a better diver, most of what he was doing I did in the past, deep diving bringing things to the surface stuff like that.
He was deep diving but basically only couple hundred feet so it wasn't really that deep. Yet on a rebreather not being able to get the right gases or even different technicality problems because of it these things happen.
Here's a write up of what happened to Zak.http://www.singledivers.com/surfacei...florida/page-2

So if you have or know why when there's a rebreather accident nothing is said for a long time, the rebreather community knows that if you have all the information held off then it's not so crucial at the time of the incident. Because they need to sell!!!!! It's a market that's big money and obviously the cost of lives.
Rebreather's are nothing new they were out before scuba, if you remember and episode with Mike Nelson and the barrels that rolled into the pond and the rebreather diver that was diving to 50 feet and Mike had to go help him, Mike mentioned many times through episodes how rebreather's were dangerous.

Just remember one thing when you have a family member that is just totally fascinated about and rebreather diving. You need to get life insurance on that person immediately It will far most be the best financial decision you ever made in your life.
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:59 PM   #2
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

As you have done in the past, you speak as if you are "in the know" but it is painfully obvious you ignorant and have no clue to what you speak of.

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A guy I knew years ago was an extremely well oriented guy around the rebreather's and instructed them and died a little over a year ago, the final answer was designer fault. Ron Aekeson
The cause of his death, which was investigated fairly thoroughly by his diving mates and the rebreather manufacturer provided significant evidence that he: (1) was diving with two (out of three) old oxygen cells that were current limited and, therefore, suspect, (2) was diving very soon after a severe bout with the flu (read as not in good health) and was dehydrated. These factors led to an oxygen convulsion and drowning. His diving mates did not give up rebreathers and diving and walk away. You have cited this incident before and were corrected, yet you continue your misinformation.

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Some years later Zack popped in on all this kind of diving...He was deep diving but basically only couple hundred feet so it wasn't really that deep...Yet on a rebreather not being able to get the right gases or even different technicality problems because of it these things happen.
The accident analysis on Zack's incident revealed numerous issues that could have led to his death, including the fact that his diluent tank was off and oxygen tank was empty. Other evidence indicates he likely went hypoxic. His death was determined to be diver error.

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So if you have or know why when there's a rebreather accident nothing is said for a long time, the rebreather community knows that if you have all the information held off then it's not so crucial at the time of the incident.
Again, totally baseless and incorrect. You can see extensive discussions on the rebreather forums about accidents and incidents, including the ones you so sloppily cited. As rebreather users, we tend to be particularly invested in potential causes to these incidents. Your first instance that you cited happened just a few days ago. It takes time to notify families, accumulate first-hand information, obtain autopsy results, and evaluate gear, all of which is complicated during the holiday season. Discussing anything prior to receiving any *credible* information is pure speculation and is not proper accident evaluation.

Rebreathers are indeed more complicated than conventional SCUBA and have the very real potential to kill you. Particularly if you are complacent or cut corners. They don't care if you are well liked, have dived for decades, or are an instructor. They are equal opportunity killers to those that don't respect them. But as has been demonstrated by countless dives in very extreme environments by amateurs, scientists, and the military over several decades, they do work and work better than conventional SCUBA in many scenarios.

My suggestion to you is to stick to subjects you actually know something about rather than posting this rubbish.
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:13 PM   #3
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

For 40 years there were only 17 rebreather accidents, and over 300 since then. I think 38 in 2014 and now that the word is been put out that these things are dangerous, people have been shying away from rebreather's, 2015 we had less than half of what 2014 was.

And statistically out of the 300+ most of them were experienced or experts, also the inspiration rebreather has killed the most.

A couple decades ago I almost switched to the rebreather, but my gal said no no no no!!!
You always told me rebreather's will kill you!!!!!
I dabbled in them a bit, found out there just a huge waste of time.

The results are amusing as the same as the results and diving on scuba, yet they're different but the corner usually comes up with close to the same for most of them.
Thing I found odd though is that in the rebreather's they come up with the buddy being part of the blame, or they'll say buddy /Solo.


ReBreather diver thats going to live is the one that will cancel his dive, and then his diving ends because nobody wants a diver, somebody that can't commit to the time of diving. So you must solo dive to keep what you love to do.

There's just so many things involved yet whether you love going under and doing things underwater.

Diving is just dangerous And you're going to die diving No doubt about it. But you can extend that time if you don't dive a rebreather.
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:44 PM   #4
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

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Originally Posted by kehloken View Post
For 40 years there were only 17 rebreather accidents, and over 300 since then. I think 38 in 2014 and now that the word is been put out that these things are dangerous, people have been shying away from rebreather's, 2015 we had less than half of what 2014 was.

And statistically out of the 300+ most of them were experienced or experts, also the inspiration rebreather has killed the most.
Hard to make heads or tails out of your babble. But again, you are clueless and incorrect. Clueless because you don't seem to grasp the fact that rebreathers are more often used in more technical applications, both in depth and duration, than open circuit these days. Therefore, the risk is greater than an average recreational dive, which helps to explain why several experienced divers have died on rebreathers. See my post above about rebreathers being equal opportunity and all. And of course AP units are associated with the mist fatalities as they have been in the mainstream the longest and have sold the most units. That's common sense. For your last bit, unfortunately you are incorrect. People are not shying away from rebreathers and they are entering the larger recreational sector (read as occasional diver) as well. The booths at DEMA the past 10 years readily demonstrate this fact.

Rebreathers are not for everyone, just like technical diving is not for everyone, and just like diving in general is not for everyone.

It is amusing to read over your posts. It increasingly makes me wonder if you just a blow hard that probably rarely dives.
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:00 PM   #5
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

Funny I just got out of the water little while ago.
And funny again as you want to keep whining about me.
And of course look how many people are in the world that's obvious. But you have to look at the answers of the statistics from all the rebreather accidents. Obviously you're the number one guy that knows everything.

I simply just seen another rebreather diver instructor just died a couple weeks ago and I'm sure that the same answers are going to come right back.
So obviously we just have to go another year and see why there was only 13 this year and four of them are from the USA.
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:13 PM   #6
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

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Originally Posted by kehloken View Post
Funny I just got out of the water little while ago.
And funny again as you want to keep whining about me.
Not whining about you - I am pointing out the many inaccuracies in your statements and incorrect conclusions, which demonstrates you don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:22 PM   #7
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

It is actually you that is in accurate, does not matter what I reply you disagree, cause they have quit diving and they have been selling their gear, Rebreathers.
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Old 01-05-2016, 05:25 PM   #8
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

Sorry all I got out of it was - guy spearfishing with a rebreather in Florida - pretty sure that's a no no
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:28 PM   #9
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

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Sorry all I got out of it was - guy spearfishing with a rebreather in Florida - pretty sure that's a no no
A "no no" only in State Waters I believe.
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:55 PM   #10
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

Here is an interesting discussion about why they kept it quiet initially.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/acc...alifornia.html

.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:53 PM   #11
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

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A "no no" only in State Waters I believe.
And in federal waters of the South Atlantic for snapper grouper species (most of the good stuff we go after).
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:47 AM   #12
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

Posted on the link that spearmax put up, there are several rebreather problems that go with the controllers and what not have you where the cause of death for the rebreather's.

And from what I gathered and what one corner said about JJ Evo or something like that, is that it's unsafe because it's a manual way, instead of using the solenoids and computers that let you know of the problems. So I would say that the rebreather's are always gonna kill you because these problems are going to happen obviously electronics in salt water, and the diver that overlooks doesn't take care of stuff to an extreme effort.
Some findings where when you buy a used rebreather, rebreather divers modify the rebreather and then one instance the hose connections were not right probably just making something work and the buyer died. So in essence if you want to try and prolong your life on rebreather you should buy a new one.

I don't know of anywhere that you can Spearfish with the rebreather. Are regulations say the diver must be swimming or floating in the water while spearfishing the use of explosives or bullets attached to the spear (" bank sticks") is prohibited.
So I guess you can Spearfish with rebreather in our waters as far as I can see.
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Old 01-09-2016, 11:09 AM   #13
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

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Originally Posted by kehloken View Post
Posted on the link that spearmax put up, there are several rebreather problems that go with the controllers and what not have you where the cause of death for the rebreather's.

And from what I gathered and what one corner said about JJ Evo or something like that, is that it's unsafe because it's a manual way, instead of using the solenoids and computers that let you know of the problems. So I would say that the rebreather's are always gonna kill you because these problems are going to happen obviously electronics in salt water, and the diver that overlooks doesn't take care of stuff to an extreme effort.
Some findings where when you buy a used rebreather, rebreather divers modify the rebreather and then one instance the hose connections were not right probably just making something work and the buyer died. So in essence if you want to try and prolong your life on rebreather you should buy a new one.

I don't know of anywhere that you can Spearfish with the rebreather. Are regulations say the diver must be swimming or floating in the water while spearfishing the use of explosives or bullets attached to the spear (" bank sticks") is prohibited.
So I guess you can Spearfish with rebreather in our waters as far as I can see.
You are a blithering idiot. It's almost as if you have a random word generator produce your posts. But they are entertaining.
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Old 01-09-2016, 11:56 AM   #14
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

So that's your reaction because I tell the truth about rebreather's. You are the one that's an idiot. For the main fact if you dive a rebreather you're going to die.
Because as the facts are whether you're an expert or beginner you will die diving on rebreather.
And you know that's very old news to cut down peoples credibility on their spelling or their paragraphs or anything they post.

In the way I see it if you have a wife and I feel very sorry for her if you do, because obviously she is the only man in your family.
You cry and whine like a little girl.

Prove that rebreather's don't kill you and you can't do that. And statistics will just show you year after year. I'm just trying to figure out why they killed so many people and after so many years and so much experience you die.

Anything you want to do is cover up with some other story like oh he was sick prior.
Which in the findings did not have much to do with it but that's just what you in the rebreather world want to portray.

So I don't know how your life insurance is or how it is when you do rebreather cause I mean basically when you Dive a rebreather that's basically committing suicide.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:24 PM   #15
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Re: Rebreather's Will Kill You

And I'm only under the impression that the only reason that you're acting this way, is maybe you teach rebreather's or you do not want the litigation that can happen from rebreather's.
So therefore that is why when the rebreather accident happens they don't want anybody to say anything no information at all because if they do then they could be liable For the death of that students rebreather or that team member on rebreather.
so to give in adequate and in accurate information is pretty much the way I see it in the rebreather world from the people that teach rebreather's.

And how it should be is if you teach someone how do use and certify them in a rebreather you should be held accountable if they die, other than gear Malfunction.
Therefore you need to step up the teaching process. Obviously you need to be a perfect diver and a perfect person to do this. But it comes right down to somebody's just trying to make money and make a living and I could care less whether you live or die, as in oh you need to pay me upfront for everything before we go for this dive.

So litigation must be a huge part of the reason for the rebreather world to hide any information when death comes upon. But in the Scuba world they'll try to learn to save people to live by Getting as much information about how someone died.
Here on spear board for free diving it's put up to you point blank shallow water blackout you're going to die, if you continue to have shallow water blackout, Or are not prepared for one.

But in the rebreather world they want their money they don't want you to say anything because they know rebreather's will kill you, and it showing more and more that anybody that teaches her promotes rebreather's could care less.
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