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Old 09-30-2016, 08:27 AM   #16
Marco
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

I'm sure everyone wants to give the best advice, but remember that he has never used a pneumatic. Better if the gun he gets comes ready to use. Otherwise he will get frustrated pretty soon.

This being said, how many guns come rigged with a good shaft, nice trigger, right buoyancy, good slider, etc?

I think just two: Cyrano EVO HF and the new Salvimars.

Other than that, he will need to do some mods to make them shoot right.
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:30 AM   #17
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuuken View Post
"Starting at $429.95. You save 80.05(16%) List $510.00"

I don't know if it changes the price based on user location, but I'm not getting your price. They must like you better.
Maybe they like me better...
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:55 AM   #18
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Hmm, the plot does thicken. Perhaps, hold back on the Magnums for now. Judging from this thread, whose pics are sadly missing, it seems that the pump valve might not be interchangeable with the regular ones. Perhaps, it is even a female thread on both ends.
http://forum.spearboy.com/viewtopic.php?t=20175
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:56 AM   #19
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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Maybe they like me better...
I was getting that price, too - but for a second it did show the 400 something price before updating to Marco's.
I am currently in Thailand but chose USA on the top left.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:17 AM   #20
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Is the mares cyrano evo hf better than the predathor vuoto or other salvimar predathors? No vuotos smaller than 100 in the US, but the smaller predator and predator plus are selling for cheap.

Sent from my VIVO 5 using Tapatalk
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:27 AM   #21
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Hi Mike,
I have a Sporasub one air 70cm which came with a vac muzzle and a 6.75mm shaft.
It arrived with a duff o ring and wouldn't hold air but only took 2 secs to replace and has been working great since then. Really enjoy using it.
My only negative is I don't really like the shaft it comes with, it has a cheap non recessed flopper and I was hoping it would be the Sporasub america one shaft. On the plus side it usually shoots the shaft right through the fish so I don't have to worry about the flopper.
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:20 PM   #22
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

When Salvimar went to the stock parts bin to revamp the Scubapro "Magnum" they changed the pump connection as well as the rear cap which gave the resultant "Vintair" a different look. Using a more universal pump barrel they then carried that into the "Predathor" whose innards are very much in the "Magnum" style.

The layouts in the parts diagrams don't leave much room for doubt. ("Magnum" parts diagram is now added for comparison with the "Vintair" version)

As most spearfishermen will want to move on to a "better for them" gun after their first experience with a pneumatic, they initially buy a "plain vanilla" gun at first. I have acquired a number of guns at "bargain basement" prices when that "first pneumatic" gun was a rather ambitious model which the disappointed owner, on finding that they hated pneumatic guns, were disposed of at a significant loss to them.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 10-05-2016 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Adding the "Magnum" parts diagram
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:27 AM   #23
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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Originally Posted by CyborgDroid View Post
Is the mares cyrano evo hf better than the predathor vuoto or other salvimar predathors? No vuotos smaller than 100 in the US, but the smaller predator and predator plus are selling for cheap.

Sent from my VIVO 5 using Tapatalk
Tricky one as I have never seen a shootout between them.
I'd venture a slightly educated guess and say that the Predathor should be a tad more powerful as it is vacuum-muzzled from the get go.
The Evo HF is sleeker, nicer looking and possibly better balanced in the water (?). The traditional 40mm guns can be a tad heavy in the water in shorter sizes.

One of the claims of improvement from the Evo series comes from the fact that the air transfer port through the partioning bulkhead is bigger in the Evos than in other guns. This, Mares says leads to less of a bottleneck and more power. Whether it was ever a real issue or if it is just sales speak, I don't know. But in case of a Predathor vs. Evo I think that argument is moot as the Predathor also has bigger transfer ports than e.g. Stens, Assos, Cressis, etc.

Bear in mind, that Salvimar measures their guns a bit differently from other brands. So, a 100 Salvi is more like a 105-107 of other brands. So, even though pneumatics are way shorter than comparably named band guns, a Salvi 100 might be too long a gun for generally shitty viz.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-01-2016 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:32 AM   #24
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
Hi Mike,
I have a Sporasub one air 70cm which came with a vac muzzle and a 6.75mm shaft.
It arrived with a duff o ring and wouldn't hold air but only took 2 secs to replace and has been working great since then. Really enjoy using it.
My only negative is I don't really like the shaft it comes with, it has a cheap non recessed flopper and I was hoping it would be the Sporasub america one shaft. On the plus side it usually shoots the shaft right through the fish so I don't have to worry about the flopper.
I have the One Air 120 and though it should in theory be slightly hampered by the fact that the shooting barrel stops short just in front of the handle (and doesn't go through all the way to the back of the handle as in most other guns) I actually like shooting it a lot.
In another thread, we have described it as just a very clinical, precise shooting gun. It has "zero" recoil on account of it being a quite beefy gun.
The handle grip is likely the best on any pneumatic.

I also can't remember a single fish I didn't string onto the mono line - except for groupers sitting on the reef. But I don't shoot monsters.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-01-2016 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:36 AM   #25
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
When Salvimar went to the stock parts bin to revamp the Scubapro "Magnum" they changed the pump connection as well as the rear cap which gave the resultant "Vintair" a different look. Using a more universal pump barrel they then carried that into the "Predathor" whose innards are very much in the "Magnum" style.

The layouts in the parts diagrams don't leave much room for doubt.
Pete, I think I saw in another thread that you have a Magnum? Does it make sense that the pump inlet valve could have a female thread on the barrel end, too? The pump end of the valve must be bigger in thread than 'Mares size' as there was that fix of using a step-up adapter. But I saw a mentioning that someone had taken a Magnum apart to try to swap the valve for a Mares/Cressi and they weren't compatible. This was from a long dead French thread, so not 100% sure I got it right, though.
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:59 AM   #26
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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Originally Posted by Marco View Post
I'm sure everyone wants to give the best advice, but remember that he has never used a pneumatic. Better if the gun he gets comes ready to use. Otherwise he will get frustrated pretty soon.

This being said, how many guns come rigged with a good shaft, nice trigger, right buoyancy, good slider, etc?

I think just two: Cyrano EVO HF and the new Salvimars.

Other than that, he will need to do some mods to make them shoot right.
You are right, except we don't know at all if he has a tinkering personality. My very first gun was a traditional pneumatic. While they might seem complicated, if you are just slightly OK with tools and tech they are simple enough. I think I dived with it for a total of three days before I took it apart the first time and then soon after, added a vacuum muzzle. Ever since then, I have kept modding my guns, mainly cuz I just can't help it;-)

So, for me, it's more to do with personality than whether the gun is his first pneumatic or not.

But if the OP just wants a gun ready to shoot, I agree with your choices.
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Old 10-01-2016, 06:51 AM   #27
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Pete, I think I saw in another thread that you have a Magnum? Does it make sense that the pump inlet valve could have a female thread on the barrel end, too? The pump end of the valve must be bigger in thread than 'Mares size' as there was that fix of using a step-up adapter. But I saw a mentioning that someone had taken a Magnum apart to try to swap the valve for a Mares/Cressi and they weren't compatible. This was from a long dead French thread, so not 100% sure I got it right, though.
Yes, I have a "Magnum 95" and it uses a larger bore hand pump which I indicated in some photos on a recent thread. The hand pump's tapered end nose seals on an "O" ring trapped in the rear of the inlet valve body which is made from alloy in the Scubapro gun. In a Mares "Sten" a smaller diameter "O" ring sits on the nose of the Mares hand pump and fits into a well at the end of the screw threaded section of the inlet valve body which is usually chrome plated brass.

Some time ago I put up a schematic for the "Magnum" showing the exploded parts diagram for the gun. I no longer have a copy of it, but a forum thread search should find it again.
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Old 10-01-2016, 08:42 AM   #28
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

I have never shot a Salvi pneumatic. I will try one in a couple weeks. Then I can compare them with the others.
I've shot old Stens, old Cyranos, Cressi SL, Scubapro, Nemrod and Cobra. It's night vs day compared with the new Cyrano. Trigger smothness is what amazed me more.
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Old 10-01-2016, 08:52 AM   #29
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

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I have never shot a Salvi pneumatic. I will try one in a couple weeks. Then I can compare them with the others.

I've shot old Stens, old Cyranos, Cressi SL, Scubapro, Nemrod and Cobra. It's night vs day compared with the new Cyrano. Trigger smothness is what amazed me more.
Sounds cool, will be good to hear your findings.

Your trigger is smoother because it has a 1.5mm trigger pin instead of the 3mm ones you have tried in the past. It doesn't sound like much but discounted any friction the force that, say, 20 bar of air pressure exerts on a 1.5mm trigger is four times or one full kilo less than a 3mm one (361gf vs. 1442gf). That is indeed night and day.
To upgrade most of these older 3mm trigger pins to 1.5mm costs about 15 euros. Newer Stens already come with a 1.5mm trigger. The Salvi Predathor is 2mm. Obviously, trigger geometry has a say, too and I have neglected that here, hoping they are all very close. But perhaps some day, us air nerds will map that out across the brands.

The main performance booster in your gun is probably because there is less water in your 11mm barrel than in traditional 13mm barrels (other brands make 11mm guns, too and they are preferable to 13mm ones if you don't add a vac muzzle). Maybe the ports in your muzzle also lets out that water faster than in older designs. (Put a vac muzzle on these guns and that advantage disappears completely). Lastly, as mentioned, your gun has a bigger transfer port in the power regulator bulkhead. Perhaps 2mm bigger in diameter (can't recall). How much improvement that adds in real life I have no clue about. Possibly you get a bit more control from a slightly higher set handle, but airguns already have more bulk and thus less recoil than pipe guns, so not sure how much it adds.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-01-2016 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:34 AM   #30
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Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

This trigger is smoother than the older Cyranos that were 1.5 mm as well.
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