Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > Spearfishing Gear > All About Guns

All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2016, 12:36 PM   #31
Chuuken
Mike Wilborn
 
Chuuken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Southeast, MI
Posts: 438
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
You are right, except we don't know at all if he has a tinkering personality. My very first gun was a traditional pneumatic. While they might seem complicated, if you are just slightly OK with tools and tech they are simple enough. I think I dived with it for a total of three days before I took it apart the first time and then soon after, added a vacuum muzzle. Ever since then, I have kept modding my guns, mainly cuz I just can't help it;-)

So, for me, it's more to do with personality than whether the gun is his first pneumatic or not.

But if the OP just wants a gun ready to shoot, I agree with your choices.
I have enough of a tinker's personality to look at it like this: I will be more than content to take apart, clean, lube and reassemble anything I own. I will be happy to get a new spear and or adaptor if needs be. I've just been a tinker long enough to take a long thoughtful look at a project before stepping into it waist deep and finding I'd have spent less to buy the new version, no questions asked.

As it stands, the used magnums look great to me. I've already seen more than one store that sells spears for them, the great question is the pump. If I could have someone fabricate a plug that would screw into the gun with a standard schrader valve on it, for a reasonable price, I can't think of any downsides. If I can get the craigslist guy with the 95 to respond (no luck as yet), I'd pull that trigger today. $10 is well within my experimenting/tinker budget. The whole project I would estimate to fall around $100-150, (depending on solutions for the pump and if I can get a piston kit from somewhere), and that's pretty good for a foray into pneumatics I think.

Also, Thanks everyone for replying. I'm paying attention to everything you all say, regardless of the final route I go.
Chuuken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2016, 02:28 PM   #32
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 367
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

If you wanna go down the tinkering road, we are here for you.
Would be great if the seller could confirm nothing is seized up, though. And that the power regulator worked last time out. I'd be less worried about leaks than a seized piston or muzzle. Leaks are normally just a bad o-ring whereas seized threads are more of a hassle.

In reg. to pumping it, a Schrader valve wont really work as you wont find a bike or car pump that can get you to the 20ish bar, you'd like to get into a 13mm gun.
I think Pete uses a cheapo car pump to get up to around 10 bar and then uses the hand pump from there. So, pretty much no matter what, you'd need the hand pump.
Either keep looking a bit longer for an original pump or befriend someone with a lathe to make the step-up adapter for you and get a Mares pump. Should be about 15-20 bucks from new. You'd want to keep the internal air space volume in the adapter to an absolute minimum otherwise you will have an issue when getting to high pressure with moving the air into the gun itself. I am sure Pete can explain it better.

I don't know if the Magnums will be a tad heavy in the water but you can always wrap the outer barrel with a neoprene sleeve or add a small floater. It's not a big issue as you won't dive deep and loose flotation due to compression.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2016, 05:40 PM   #33
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,378
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Here are photos of the "Sten 90", "Magnum 95" and "SL70". The "Sten 90" has bowled over many specimens, the "Magnum 95" slightly less and Cressi "SL70" very little as I dislike loading it (too short). Gun length numbers don't mean much!

The "Sten" has the biggest diameter trigger transmission pin at 3 mm, but that has never proven to be a problem in shooting numerous fish. The "Magnum" stepped up to the plate when the "Sten" began to weary and the "SL70" shirked duty by remaining in a locker for decades in its carry bag.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	grip rear view R.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	129.1 KB
ID:	229231   Click image for larger version

Name:	grips R.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	51.1 KB
ID:	229232   Click image for larger version

Name:	muzzles R.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	128.2 KB
ID:	229233   Click image for larger version

Name:	pump handles R.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	132.4 KB
ID:	229234   Click image for larger version

Name:	pump noses R.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	119.3 KB
ID:	229235  

Click image for larger version

Name:	pumps R.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	122.8 KB
ID:	229236   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sten Magnum SL R.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	114.0 KB
ID:	229237  
popgun pete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2016, 07:56 AM   #34
Chuuken
Mike Wilborn
 
Chuuken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Southeast, MI
Posts: 438
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

For the sake of closure, here's what I decided. I'm going to get a Salvimar Predathor Plus.

There just aren't that many used pneumatics on the market, or if there are, I can't find them. The Scubapro Magnums look good, but I'm not super keen on finding or fabricating an adaptor for the pump, (plus getting a mares pump, plus getting a shaft, etc...).

I learned a lot trying to figure this out. Like about the "geofencing" (that's a computer term, I'm not sure what the proper word is in this instance... "regional pricing"?) some of the companies do to protect their pricing in the US market. That explains the variance in price for the Cyrano Evo HF between Marco and myself. Salvimar also does this, but I live next door to Canada, so I'm gonna work with it.

Thanks for all the advice!

Mike
Chuuken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2016, 02:24 PM   #35
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 367
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuuken View Post
For the sake of closure, here's what I decided. I'm going to get a Salvimar Predathor Plus. [....]

Thanks for all the advice!

Mike

Very cool, and thanks so much for the update.
Bear in mind, the Plus doesn't have a vacuum muzzle. But it is a 35-40 euro upgrade later on. Also, it looks like the Plus comes with a dreadful 8mm galvanized shaft with screw-in tip. Not a fan of those. The Predathor Vuoto should come with a 7mm hardened SS 7mm tahitian spear - at least the 85 does. Also, from 85 and up, the gun comes with a reel.
If you do decide to spring for the Vuoto version, then remember to pick up a spare set of vacuum seals for the Predathor. They will wear out. I think it is about 9 euros for a set of three.

It's very easy to inspect the seal by just unscrewing the front part of the muzzle with your fingers. No need to 'deflate' the gun. Just wiggle the seal around to see if any tears show up.
If it happens while in the water, you can sometimes see a very noticeable drop in power. The happens because water can now slowly enter the barrel but it can not escape as easily during the shot as with a normal muzzle.
You could probably even carry a spare seal tied to your float, if you have one, or perhaps to the loader.

If this is your first pneumatic, then speaking of the loader, a lot of us add a small lanyard, like those used on torch lights, and carry it on our wrist. To avoid it dangling against the handle and making noise I, personally, stick the loader into the sleeve of the wetsuit at the wrist. I dive in tropical waters, but in colder waters, this might not be the best solution. A good idea is to always attach the loader to the gun when you get out of the water. That way, you wont forget the loader on land on your next trip.

Also, it may take a little while to get used to loading and aiming this slightly different type of gun, but you'll get there and I think it should be a great gun for your type of fishing. If it really is close up, river hunting, a 65 might even suffice.

Let us know how it balances in the water, would be good to know.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-04-2016 at 02:53 PM.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2016, 07:33 PM   #36
CyborgDroid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

The evo hf is 290 USED. Just click on their used link. The salvimar vuoto 115 is about 200 on Amazon, even cheaper than the plus. I think it is a glitch, as soon as I bought the 100cm for $177 it went up to $396.

Sent from my VIVO 5 using Tapatalk
CyborgDroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 11:04 AM   #37
Chuuken
Mike Wilborn
 
Chuuken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Southeast, MI
Posts: 438
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

I got my salvimar! I figured I'd report on this if anyone else is interested in ordering a pneumatic. Here's the last lesson I learned in the ordering process: if you are ordering from inside the US, just order from a us distributor. I was looking to save some money, as the gun, shipped, was about 30$ less when ordered from abroad and shipped to Canada. But then... $35 import fee, $10 tunnel fare, $4 for the priveledge of using the ups store... It was no cheaper. Let that be a lesson to others. Now, though, I have the gun and an extra spear. So, on to learning how to set it up!
Chuuken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 11:57 AM   #38
Marco
Registered User
 
Marco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Panama City, Panama
Age: 51
Posts: 2,136
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Which one did you get at the end? I got a 115 Predathor Vuoto with the "Race" kit this Saturday. Have to test it yet. Just did one shot and was awesome.
__________________
Marco

A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work
Marco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 03:48 PM   #39
Chuuken
Mike Wilborn
 
Chuuken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Southeast, MI
Posts: 438
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

I got a 85 Predathor Plus. I also got a 7mm single flopper Tahitian spear made by Salvimar. I'm pretty excited about it. The first thing I did was carefully release the air, (it did come pressurized), then I used the table in the manual to pump it back up to 20atm.

I started rigging it with the mono I had on hand, (300#), but it wouldn't fit through the slider on the 7mm spear. I'm not sure what the style is called, but it's the slider where the line enters and exits the slider in line with the spear. (Not the same as the slider that was on the stock 8mm spear, which has 2 big holes and the line would be perpendicular to the spear shaft). I ordered some 200# mono and I am hoping it fits. I hate dealing with braided shooting line. I know there are stiffer options, but the line that came with the gun is not one of those stiffer options.

The post office says the new shooting line will be here tomorrow, so I'm hoping I'll get a chance to flop around in the lake and do some shooting at foam or milk jugs or something by the end of the week for familiarization.

Having had a chance to go over the gun, it is looking less "complicated" every time I sit down with it. I can't wait to get it wet!
Chuuken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 06:42 PM   #40
Marco
Registered User
 
Marco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Panama City, Panama
Age: 51
Posts: 2,136
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Cool!
__________________
Marco

A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work
Marco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 11:15 PM   #41
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 367
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco View Post
Which one did you get at the end? I got a 115 Predathor Vuoto with the "Race" kit this Saturday. Have to test it yet. Just did one shot and was awesome.
Haha, Marco - don't find it too awesome, cuz then you'd might want to vac-upgrade your Evo...
Actually, the Vuoto muzzle on your Predathor now comes in a version for the Evo guns, too. So, it's about 40 euros for the upgrade. Or you get a swanker custom one from Tomba:-)

Once you have shot it some more, please share how you find the trigger pull on the Predathor? It has a thicker pin and some say, it's a tad heavy.

I only just bought a Predator 85 for a friend, but will get to shoot it, too. But not for another month or so.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 11:37 PM   #42
ninjagazz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 54
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Marco i have the predathor vuoto 115, it came with a 8mm spear which i initially didn't like, but grew to love it as i just smashes the fish and is very bend resistant. Let me know how you find the 7mm spear and if there is any bending issues when loading.

I also have a predathor 75, which i used with the standard spear. Initially i didn't bother to upgrade the spear as the gun was so successful with the crappy spear, until i used it last holidays and killed the tip when i hit a rock. I then sought out a replacement tip but killed it first shot along with the spear when i hit a rock at range (about 2.5mts from the tip). Luckily there were some cheap spring stainless replacement shafts going for $5 each at a local store (adreno) and i got a few. The little predathor has stacks of power (without a dry barrel), i was regularly stringing 2 fish with one shot when shooting into schools of fish.

Also i upgraded all my line sliders to stainless ones as the plastic slider will be killed easily by a rock of big fish.
ninjagazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 06:02 PM   #43
Marco
Registered User
 
Marco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Panama City, Panama
Age: 51
Posts: 2,136
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Well, I did some tests last night at the pool. I have to say that the trigger of the Predathor is a little harder to pull than the Cyrano Evo, which I don't really like. I played around with the small bolt that is supposed to adjust the trigger sensitivity, but it only adjusts the pull. So I tried to put it back to the original position since I don't like the idea of being so short that the shaft could shot alone accidentally.

The reel that comes with the gun blocked after like 5-6 shots. I had it with the brake fully engaged to prevent to adjust it after each shot and suddenly, I couldnt coil it anymore. Now I will dismantle it to see what happened.

The original shaft is 8 mm hardened stainless steel. It seems to be good quality.

The power is awesome. As I said, it pulled some line from the reel after two line wraps. I think it would shoot 3 wraps, but I don't like to let the fish that much play and I don't think I can hit ANYTHING that far. Maybe if I go to a bluewater trip, I'll switch to triple wrap.
__________________
Marco

A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work
Marco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 10:13 PM   #44
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 367
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco View Post
Well, I did some tests last night at the pool. I have to say that the trigger of the Predathor is a little harder to pull than the Cyrano Evo, which I don't really like. I played around with the small bolt that is supposed to adjust the trigger sensitivity, but it only adjusts the pull. So I tried to put it back to the original position since I don't like the idea of being so short that the shaft could shot alone accidentally.

The reel that comes with the gun blocked after like 5-6 shots. I had it with the brake fully engaged to prevent to adjust it after each shot and suddenly, I couldnt coil it anymore. Now I will dismantle it to see what happened.

The original shaft is 8 mm hardened stainless steel. It seems to be good quality.

The power is awesome. As I said, it pulled some line from the reel after two line wraps. I think it would shoot 3 wraps, but I don't like to let the fish that much play and I don't think I can hit ANYTHING that far. Maybe if I go to a bluewater trip, I'll switch to triple wrap.
Hi Marco,
Good to hear your initial impressions.

I agree, it is bad practice of the manufacturers to say you can adjust the sensitivity because, as you noticed, it only affects the stroke

Most of my vac air guns pull four full loops of mono plus a slight tug on the reel. No power out there I reckon, so I cut them down to three. Still, an awful lot of mono in the water after each shot.

Good luck on the reel, hope it is fixable. I wrote somewhere else that while it seems solidly built, I don't like the fact that it just takes about a 1/4 of a turn on the brake to go from free spooling to full lock. I like to dial in a sweet spot with enough friction to hold shooting line firm on the gun and put a bit of pressure on the fish. Not easy to do this with the Salvi reel and many others.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2016, 11:03 PM   #45
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 367
Re: Another Pneumatic recomendation thread

Hey Gazz and Marco,
How's the balance and buoyancy with the 8mm spear?

I have some 7.5mm spears that I think could be a happy medium and I am fairly sure my Mirage 125 is neutral with it.

To band gun folks who ended up on this thread, air guns shoot short spears so one way to get some more mass into them, is upping the diameter.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com