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Old 11-16-2017, 12:22 PM   #61
danvolker
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by rowow View Post
Thank you very much. This is what I wanted < snip> So if eating 1-2 black grouper/cobia a year is enough to cause memory problems then this is a serious problem.
What were we talking about? :-)
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:10 PM   #62
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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What were we talking about? :-)
(Whenever I say statistical high I mean the high/low of a group of numbers)

SpearMax was complaining about how because that the statistical high for mercury levels in Goliath groupers can reach 4ppm (Goliath grouper's average mercury levels are around 0.6-0.8ppm), it should be avoided at all cost, and since most people cant tell the mercury levels of a fish before shooting it, a ban on Goliath groupers should continue or the allowed size slots should be lowered. In response I asked two things.

1: If you say eating Goliath groupers is not safe because of the possibility of a fish having mercury levels around 4ppm, are you going to stop eating cobia, black grouper, and dozens of other fish that are eaten by spearos and fishermen. All of these fish have a statistical high of 4ppm

2: Can you provide any health effects of mercury in low to medium levels to a grown adult male.
As far as I was able to research I only found mercury to be dangerous in children and pregnant women, or in very very high levels (minamata disease). However you showed that mercury has health effects in low levels for adult males too such as memory loss/etc.

Because that you proved my second question, all I now need to be answered is the first, which is how much fish can you eat with 4ppm mercury levels before you start developing health problems? Because if any amount is dangerous and causes health effects, then this is a problem that goes beyond Goliath Groupers as many fish that are popularly eaten every day have mercury levels around 4ppm.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:41 PM   #63
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

With some research I found that the safe limit for tilefish from the gulf of mexico (they have a higher mercury level then Goliath grouper for average and min/high) is 1 serving per month for a grown adult male.

Mercury levels: https://www.fda.gov/food/foodborneil.../ucm115644.htm

Servings: http://www.fishchoice.com/buying-guide/golden-tilefish
https://www.epa.gov/fish-tech/epa-fd...al-information
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:05 AM   #64
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rowow View Post
(Whenever I say statistical high I mean the high/low of a group of numbers)

SpearMax was complaining about how because that the statistical high for mercury levels in Goliath groupers can reach 4ppm (Goliath grouper's average mercury levels are around 0.6-0.8ppm), it should be avoided at all cost, and since most people cant tell the mercury levels of a fish before shooting it, a ban on Goliath groupers should continue or the allowed size slots should be lowered. In response I asked two things.

1: If you say eating Goliath groupers is not safe because of the possibility of a fish having mercury levels around 4ppm, are you going to stop eating cobia, black grouper, and dozens of other fish that are eaten by spearos and fishermen. All of these fish have a statistical high of 4ppm

2: Can you provide any health effects of mercury in low to medium levels to a grown adult male.
As far as I was able to research I only found mercury to be dangerous in children and pregnant women, or in very very high levels (minamata disease). However you showed that mercury has health effects in low levels for adult males too such as memory loss/etc.

Because that you proved my second question, all I now need to be answered is the first, which is how much fish can you eat with 4ppm mercury levels before you start developing health problems? Because if any amount is dangerous and causes health effects, then this is a problem that goes beyond Goliath Groupers as many fish that are popularly eaten every day have mercury levels around 4ppm.
I was actually trying to be funny, because of your memory comment and eating seafood....but it's actually great that you have brought out the key issues again, in the hope we might all see some light on all this...
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:34 AM   #65
rowow
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by danvolker View Post
I was actually trying to be funny, because of your memory comment and eating seafood....but it's actually great that you have brought out the key issues again, in the hope we might all see some light on all this...
HAHA nice one, sorry I missed it.
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM   #66
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Wink Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rowow View Post
(Whenever I say statistical high I mean the high/low of a group of numbers)

SpearMax was complaining about how because that the statistical high for mercury levels in Goliath groupers can reach 4ppm (Goliath grouper's average mercury levels are around 0.6-0.8ppm), it should be avoided at all cost, and since most people cant tell the mercury levels of a fish before shooting it, a ban on Goliath groupers should continue or the allowed size slots should be lowered. In response I asked two things.

1: If you say eating Goliath groupers is not safe because of the possibility of a fish having mercury levels around 4ppm, are you going to stop eating cobia, black grouper, and dozens of other fish that are eaten by spearos and fishermen. All of these fish have a statistical high of 4ppm

2: Can you provide any health effects of mercury in low to medium levels to a grown adult male.
As far as I was able to research I only found mercury to be dangerous in children and pregnant women, or in very very high levels (minamata disease). However you showed that mercury has health effects in low levels for adult males too such as memory loss/etc.

Because that you proved my second question, all I now need to be answered is the first, which is how much fish can you eat with 4ppm mercury levels before you start developing health problems? Because if any amount is dangerous and causes health effects, then this is a problem that goes beyond Goliath Groupers as many fish that are popularly eaten every day have mercury levels around 4ppm.
Rowow, take a look at this mercury level calculator and run some scenarios for your own personal diet:

http://seaturtles.org/programs/mercury/

Here is one example run of the calculator based on a 200 pound person eating grouper (non-goliath):




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Old Yesterday, 01:10 PM   #67
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Lightbulb Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Tony,

I clearly state that Dr Koenig told me something. I recall it clearly . You then demand written proof of the content of our private conversation. Wouldn't it make more sense to ask him if he recalls that conversation? If he is unable to recall it then you might have some justification to claim I am fantasizing, but to demand written proof of a prior conversation held maybe 4 years ago between two people on a boat is a little over the top don't ya think?

You still have not answered my question which was has Dr k actively lobbied the fwc for a recreational fishery being opened now? Just a question, I won't ask for written evidence of such.
Jim, I'm sorry to report that I do have written proof of Dr. Koenig's opinion of your goliath take comments a few months ago, but sadly I do not know what you may have fantasized hearing from him 4 years or so ago on a boat. Here is what he wrote to me a few months ago:

Quote:
Jim’s fourth paragraph says that it was argued that the population was too small and not recovered yet. Actually how would we know if it recovered—all stock assessments have been rejected under peer review. So, this argument still stands—we know it is recovering, but we cannot say it has recovered.
To respond to your other point, Dr. Koenig has lobbied FWC to NOT open the recreational fishery now. He did write in his 2016 MARFIN Report the management approach concerning a possible juvenile take as I have shared with you in posts above.

FYI, Tony

Last edited by SpearMax; Yesterday at 01:22 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM   #68
rowow
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post
Rowow, take a look at this mercury level calculator and run some scenarios for your own personal diet:

http://seaturtles.org/programs/mercury/

Here is one example run of the calculator based on a 200 pound person eating grouper (non-goliath):

.
If this is the case then like I stated the problem goes much further then Goliath groupers.

I wont use it as a argument but am simply curious, are you ok with eating cobia/black grouper/etc?
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Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM   #69
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

The different font sizes are confusing.
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Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM   #70
SpearMax
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by rowow View Post
If this is the case then like I stated the problem goes much further then Goliath groupers.

I wont use it as a argument but am simply curious, are you ok with eating cobia/black grouper/etc?
I have not eaten those species you mention in years. But, I do eat mahi mahi and salmon a few times a month. The data on mercury levels in various fish is interesting though as I too am learning. I would not eat adult goliath grouper based on this information.
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Old Today, 06:47 AM   #71
danvolker
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post
Jim, I'm sorry to report that I do have written proof of Dr. Koenig's opinion of your goliath take comments a few months ago, but sadly I do not know what you may have fantasized hearing from him 4 years or so ago on a boat. Here is what he wrote to me a few months ago:



To respond to your other point, Dr. Koenig has lobbied FWC to NOT open the recreational fishery now. He did write in his 2016 MARFIN Report the management approach concerning a possible juvenile take as I have shared with you in posts above.

FYI, Tony
I have had several phone conversations in the last few months with both Koenig and Malinowski, and they actually tried to get the FWC to use a very small size for the slot size, so the Goliath harvested in the slot size would not be toxic for human consumption--AND because for the reproduction of the species, the very young juveniles in the very small slot size, would not be a case of removing members of the breeding population.
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Old Today, 06:06 PM   #72
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

IDGAF about mercury or the pedantic ramblings of such. I'll eat the shit out of any grouper properly prepared. Just sayin'...
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