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Old 07-28-2022, 10:37 PM   #1
wiznut
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Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Started spearfishing fairly recently and I bought a Riffe No Ka Oi as my first gun. I've been getting frustrated by it consistently shooting low, so decided to try the Neptonics ballast kit that I found a number of people recommended. Gun still shooting low after adding it. Took the gopro in the pool today and confirmed that there's still muzzle flip happening. What's the next step to get this thing to actually shoot straight? More weight? Shorter shaft? Wings?

Slow mo gopro... Or does anybody see something different going on?

https://youtu.be/z7-3wXAipPg
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Old 07-28-2022, 11:09 PM   #2
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Use band lifters to allow the bands to stretch parallel to the top deck. As they skate along the barrel and fatten up they can lift the spear tail off the guide track. This is because cord wishbones press the stretched bands against the curved sides of the top deck. When guns used wire metal wishbones the bands stayed off the stock being held out to the sides, so these problems did not arise. Some makers eliminated this effect by creating tapered band troughs in the stock to keep the bands off.
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Old 07-29-2022, 05:40 AM   #3
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Unfortunately that gun has a low handle and that will exaggerate muzzle flip as you power it up. The best way to improve things is to simply reduce the power ... you just sacrifice power for accuracy and try and shoot a little closer. You can also modify your shooting technique by bracing the butt of the gun up and tight ... this will negate the front lift a bit and might improve your shot. Low handles will create leverage for recoil and the more recoil the lower the shot. Riffe has a Euro gun that has a much higher handle and will perform better.
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Old 07-29-2022, 06:40 PM   #4
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Just watched the video and the gun nose is certainly lifting and knocking the spear tail up on departure. A gun needs to be braced for the shot unless it is highly ballasted which means very heavy and usually bulky. The lifters I mentioned help if you do everything else right.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 07-29-2022 at 07:49 PM. Reason: add Riffe chart
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Old 07-29-2022, 08:47 PM   #5
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

The thing to remember is that spearfishermen have a wide range of physical characteristics, such as their height, body mass, limb lengths and their relative proportions and the strength of the various muscle groups, such as their wrist strength and shoulder muscle and back strength. No doubt Jay sorted out his guns by shooting them all himself and finding out what worked best. If you are built like Jay then you would most likely find his guns are fine, but most of us are not and this is why there are a variety of add-ons for his guns which would be vital for some and not really needed by others.
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Old 07-31-2022, 02:42 PM   #6
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Thanks for the feedback! I have lined up a set of wings to put on and see if that gets it fixed. Will report back!
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Old 07-31-2022, 04:42 PM   #7
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Concur with spearq8, I had a No Ka Oi years ago and had the same issue. Took off a band and got a thinner shaft, it worked but it resembled pipe guns which I ended up going to. Good Luck
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Old 08-02-2022, 03:08 PM   #8
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiznut View Post
Started spearfishing fairly recently and I bought a Riffe No Ka Oi as my first gun. I've been getting frustrated by it consistently shooting low, so decided to try the Neptonics ballast kit that I found a number of people recommended. Gun still shooting low after adding it. Took the gopro in the pool today and confirmed that there's still muzzle flip happening. What's the next step to get this thing to actually shoot straight? More weight? Shorter shaft? Wings?

Slow mo gopro... Or does anybody see something different going on?

https://youtu.be/z7-3wXAipPg
That's a good video you took and a good example of muzzle lift with a powered up setup. Hopefully those front wings will help you out. My guess is they will help, but you'll also need to reduce band power.
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Old 08-02-2022, 03:11 PM   #9
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
The thing to remember is that spearfishermen have a wide range of physical characteristics, such as their height, body mass, limb lengths and their relative proportions and the strength of the various muscle groups, such as their wrist strength and shoulder muscle and back strength. No doubt Jay sorted out his guns by shooting them all himself and finding out what worked best. If you are built like Jay then you would most likely find his guns are fine, but most of us are not and this is why there are a variety of add-ons for his guns which would be vital for some and not really needed by others.
I'd be interested to see Jay shoot this particular gun to see how it can shoot well without the wings. I'm guessing he's reinforcing the rear differently or more solidly.
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Old 08-02-2022, 04:59 PM   #10
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

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Originally Posted by musubi View Post
I'd be interested to see Jay shoot this particular gun to see how it can shoot well without the wings. I'm guessing he's reinforcing the rear differently or more solidly.
Well he has now passed on, so unfortunately that is no longer possible.
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Old 08-02-2022, 05:39 PM   #11
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

For me, the gun is overpowered. I would take off one band and try. Maybe you can shorten them afterwards (the remaining two).
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Old 08-02-2022, 11:33 PM   #12
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

I have a similar gun with the same spec as the Riffe Island With 4 rubbers and a 8.7shaft and used to own a Riffe metal Tech 4S.
Both Have brutal recoil, but you must managed it. When i am shooting i am holding the rear of the stock very firmly with my palm supporting the bottom of the butt. When the gun fires i can feel the rear of the gun try to come down and lift the muzzle and i resist this and minimise the muzzle lift, and can get a relatively clean shot. In the Video, it looked like your left arm was giving way to the recoil and your right arm was doing most of the support.

I did some pool testing and saw another person having the same issue as you, they couldn't even hit the target, yet I had no issues.

You need to learn to shoot the riffe guns.
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Old 08-03-2022, 12:48 AM   #13
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

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Originally Posted by ninjagazz View Post
I have a similar gun with the same spec as the Riffe Island With 4 rubbers and a 8.7shaft and used to own a Riffe metal Tech 4S.
Both Have brutal recoil, but you must managed it. When i am shooting i am holding the rear of the stock very firmly with my palm supporting the bottom of the butt. When the gun fires i can feel the rear of the gun try to come down and lift the muzzle and i resist this and minimise the muzzle lift, and can get a relatively clean shot. In the Video, it looked like your left arm was giving way to the recoil and your right arm was doing most of the support.

I did some pool testing and saw another person having the same issue as you, they couldn't even hit the target, yet I had no issues.

You need to learn to shoot the riffe guns.
That is right, especially if you have never shot a gun before or have been using euroguns. Many guns today people expect to shoot with one hand, but before they became popular many guns needed two hands and some even had two grip handles. Usually guns had a 5/16" shaft powered by two 5/8" bands or a 3/8" shaft with one 3/4" band, two if you were feeling adventurous.
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Old 08-31-2022, 08:56 PM   #14
wiznut
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjagazz View Post
I have a similar gun with the same spec as the Riffe Island With 4 rubbers and a 8.7shaft and used to own a Riffe metal Tech 4S.
Both Have brutal recoil, but you must managed it. When i am shooting i am holding the rear of the stock very firmly with my palm supporting the bottom of the butt. When the gun fires i can feel the rear of the gun try to come down and lift the muzzle and i resist this and minimise the muzzle lift, and can get a relatively clean shot. In the Video, it looked like your left arm was giving way to the recoil and your right arm was doing most of the support.

I did some pool testing and saw another person having the same issue as you, they couldn't even hit the target, yet I had no issues.

You need to learn to shoot the riffe guns.
You make a great point that I hadn't thought of. My left hand has been just loosely holding the butt and using it to help maneuver the gun. I will try changing my grip on the left hand to being under and firmer.

An update though.... I finally got in the pool today for the first time after getting wings installed and they have definitely made a substantial difference. It went from shooting massively low (over a foot) to a couple inches low now. I feel like I can actually hit something now with more than just pure luck. Hopefully with a change in grip, those couple inches will improve as well. If not though, I think I'm going to try putting my shorter shaft back on and taking that saved weight from the shaft and put it into ballast on the gun. There's hope yet!

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Old 08-31-2022, 11:34 PM   #15
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Re: Riffe No Ka Oi Muzzle Flip after adding Neptonics Ballast

That is a lot of overhang on that shaft.
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