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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 06-10-2020, 05:31 AM   #136
Mikel_24
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

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... So to take away all your doubt about real life performance here is last weekends catch.
.....
In this particular case I would like to investigate for myself if placing bands inline 'yada yada' will make a measurable difference and if so how much...



Regarding maneuverability I think that the modification I have in mind is not going to affect that in a perceivable way, but we will see and if I am wrong you will hear so as well.
I didn't want to sound harsh with mi previous comments. I also enjoy tinkering with my guns and trying to get the best performance. Maybe it is just my not-so-wealthy budget what prevents me with messing arround too much with expensive items.

If you go ahead with those modifications, how do you plan on measuring the improvements?

A few days ago I carved/machined a line release piece out of ERTALYTE for my Bucanero II because the steel one was to small and the additional tension on the line was making the line release galling against the trigger making the trigger harder to pull. ERTALYTE is the same high tech plastic used in the triggers of the Abellan mechs...

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Time for a bear now.
That's called "furry fixation"....

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
I have mentioned this elsewhere, but you can actually make a putty that floats and is plenty strong. Epoxy + Chopped CF + Micro Balloons.
I recently poured some PU resin (Featherlite from SmoothOn) to help with the bouayancy of one of my guns. I poured it in the cutouts meant for ballasting with lead. It worked great. It needs to be pured but it is a good solution to add flotation.

Mikel
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Old 06-11-2020, 11:02 AM   #137
spearq8
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Well I better keep my Urukay mod to myself then !!! it is way more elaborate than any of these in the pictures. Actually the Urukay is a great platform to try different ideas because of the way the muzzle is built and the way it has 2 bolts on the side each and one bolt up front ... these can be used for many different modifications. The default setup the C4 Urukay comes in is terrible, but the body of the gun is easily the strongest commercially available speargun body (by a long shot). The trigger is also quite good, so it is no surprise that many people will mod it to suit their needs. The muzzle can easily be equipped with rollers as there is a gap that is enough for wheels. It can also use the front bolt screw and side screws to setup up a classic and well spaced out band spread with elevators to keep bands inline with shaft. You can actually also make it so you can gain a full division of gun length ... so the 120 becomes more like a 130. This is very useful when trying to push an 8mm to good speeds with 2 bands or trying to push an 8.5mm shaft to Terminal Velocity with 3 bands. The gun footprint is just way too big for 7mm or the 6.5mm shaft my guns came with. The Urukay should be geared for 8mm or 8.5mm shafts.

Now this thread is about this new gun called Gladius and to be fair I have to agree that I would just put 2 x 14mm small ID bands and a 6.75mm or 7mm shaft and it should shoot really good. If shots are hitting very low I would think about elevating the bands. Usually with the thinner shafts you max shooting distance is 4m to 5m and shaft drop there is not so critical. There is no doubt though that elevating the bands will improve performance, and if you are looking for the ultimate in performance then modding it a little will certainly improve things.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:42 PM   #138
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Band angles are not a big problem if the angle is small.
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Old 06-17-2020, 02:28 PM   #139
kodama
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

More proof that this gun doesn’t require any modifications to shoot dinner dicentrarchus labrax. Epic 5,5 hour outing in fast 1m/sec current with 3m visibility. And yes I use a carbon gun for hole hunting because I couldn’t care less about the scratches!



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Old 06-17-2020, 04:37 PM   #140
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Excellent shooting, no damage to the parts that you want to eat.
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Old 07-03-2020, 06:36 PM   #141
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

I wonder if the C4 handle structure could be modified for a recoil absorber by replacing the nylon spacers with a thick rubber block that filled the gap rather than a pile of nylon washers as they use now. The rear handle piece would be snugged up with just a small amount of compliance for the intervening rubber block(s) to compress with the shot, but not enough for the rear section to twist or rock.
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Old 07-03-2020, 08:10 PM   #142
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

or springs.. But maybe that's not what you want as the gun would still be jerking? I think the concept works better with a Rifle Butt as you are still holding the front of the gun and the Recoil Force is a Straight line from bullet exiting out the muzzle into the Shoulder. But with a Rear Handle Speargun there are other vectors acting?

The C4 Handle in my opinion is such a smart piece of engineering. I know some won't like this or that, but to be able to adjust Rake Angle, and Trigger Pull so simply is very smart thinking.
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Old 07-04-2020, 02:59 AM   #143
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

I think a recoil absorber or some sort of spring can actually work against you as it absorbs the energy that would otherwise go into shaft velocity. I actually experimented with that a while back. The C4 handle looks a lot better than it feels and I consider it one of its weak points. Of course it is nice to be able to adjust the size of the handle for different hands, but I feel the application was not done right. It just feels terrible and unstable when you shoot a shot. The handle I feel is the best among commercially sold spearguns would be the Sporasub One handle . The Salvimar Hero handle is also quite nice and would come in second IMHO. They have some adjustments possible and do a good job of channeling recoil correctly into your hand. Of course nothing beats a handle that you custom adjust to your hand, but for many that is not an option they want to deal with. Handles really become critical as you power up the band load. The ideal handle is a handle that pushes the recoil towards the center of your palm where you have the most ability to resist it. If this is done you can load up practically any load you want and not worry about recoil. This not only makes shooting heavy loads very comfortable ... it also keeps the shaft stable for better performance and higher accuracy.
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Old 07-04-2020, 04:11 AM   #144
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

and why not try the "limbs saver" adhesive accessories of anti-vibration compounds bows
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:24 AM   #145
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Even if the gun moves rearwards a half inch on its handle then the energy loss would be negligible on the shot and any extra compressive element in the handle would move far less than that. The jerk reduction is what you are looking for, not the total absence of recoil which is impossible. Rollerguns have a jerk reduction as the energy is spread out during the shot, not all shoved into the spear at the very beginning of movement. With inverted rollers energy is spread out even more by using only a portion of it as the stretch left in the bands after the shot is energy not used and the spear is driven by a high force right up until it leaves the wishbone. The price of this is inefficiency as you remove all the bands from their anchors in order to reload the gun and thus lose that prestretch which you have to put in again with the next loading effort. (Except for top and bottom deck wrapping bands using rear rollers).
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:54 PM   #146
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Exactly Pete, what you are trying to increase is the Time element.. The Force is constant. Rollerguns do have Recoil.. some of it is canceled, but what might be more significant is the Time over which the Reaction occurs? The Ramping up of the Shaft Speed, The Longer Snap time (draw) of the Bands, allows for a big reduction in Felt Recoil.

Majd, certainly C4 gets Kudos for making a Grip which is adjustable in so many ways. You might not like the Rotation of the Grip, but the System is smart. Half of the problems with Grips are fitting the grip to the Trigger Pull D of the individual. Prior to them I'm not sure anyone had an Adjustable Grip which could adjust for both Trigger Pull length and Rake?
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Old 07-04-2020, 10:14 PM   #147
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

There was this one from Imersion/Esclapez, but I doubt that it was ever that successful. There were some guns that packed out the grip handle scales.

The C4 handle could be replicated in alloy.
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:36 PM   #148
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

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Exactly Pete, what you are trying to increase is the Time element.. The Force is constant. Rollerguns do have Recoil.. some of it is canceled, but what might be more significant is the Time over which the Reaction occurs? The Ramping up of the Shaft Speed, The Longer Snap time (draw) of the Bands, allows for a big reduction in Felt Recoil.

Majd, certainly C4 gets Kudos for making a Grip which is adjustable in so many ways. You might not like the Rotation of the Grip, but the System is smart. Half of the problems with Grips are fitting the grip to the Trigger Pull D of the individual. Prior to them I'm not sure anyone had an Adjustable Grip which could adjust for both Trigger Pull length and Rake?

Yes they should get Kudos for having an adjustable grip ... also the CF structure of the gun allows for an extremely high hand on the grip. What I meant is actually shooting the gun with the grip was not ideal as it felt like you are holding a wet bar of soap when shooting. Maybe it is the air gaps that are left there not giving more support ... or just that the material is very slippery and could use a friction coat ... but when you shoot the gun with higher loads it is very difficult to keep a hold of it and I feel that can easily be improved.
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Old 07-05-2020, 02:18 PM   #149
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Slippery Grips are not good. Especially if you are cutting Chum. I see what you are saying about the Air. I hadn't thought of that. A good friction coat along the inside edge of the Carbon could allow the tips of your wrapped fingers to secure your grip. Recoil is like magnetism in that it will adjust position until it finds it's path.. That's why it's so important to have a Grip that fits your hand size, shape, and isn't terribly slick. C4 for me has always been Quality of Manufacturing, Design, Durability, and Form, over Function.
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:07 PM   #150
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Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

The C4 orange plastic rear grip sections can be purchased separately, so they can be modified by scoring or grooving if you don't want to work on the original grips of which you get two anyway, one larger than the other. I bought a left hand pair in case I need to change the right hand set up.
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