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Old 08-28-2022, 05:30 PM   #1
Dbrown
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Elbow trip 8/27/22

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHWHxk1GlkU&t=26s
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHWHxk1GlkU&t=26s
Fun day on the water. Calm. Significant thermocline. 75 on bottom at 178'
My deepest dives to date. No sea monsters. Maybe next time. Gained some repetitive diving experience deep.
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Old 08-28-2022, 09:25 PM   #2
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Saw you headed back down to retrieve the lobster ty-wrap that slipped off. At least you didn't go to the bottom.
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Old 08-29-2022, 05:03 AM   #3
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

What type of air are you diving, and what does that give you for bottom time?
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Old 08-29-2022, 08:19 AM   #4
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Didn't want to litter! But no, wouldn't have gone to bottom. Already had a minute of deco to blow off on way up. A quick drop down 15' to grab it was ok.

I was breathing 25% switching to 35% pony tank on way up once I hit 100'

Bottom time dependent on how much deco you want to do. I did 5 dives in those depths and one in 130 with at least an hour surface interval. Planned for about 6 minutes of bottom time. I just watch my no decompression time limits and when it says 1 or zero I head up.

My dives weren't very fishy, so I didn't get to watch video of how I was behaving and sequencing with repetitive shooting to see how nitrogen load was impacting my routine. I felt fine, but well aware nitrogen load is what it is and science does apply to me. That's why I got the Perdix and watch a lot of videos and pleased had no issues. We also have oxygen on boat.
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Old 08-29-2022, 08:28 AM   #5
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Thanks for the response. I've not done any diving that deep and may very well never do so. But very interesting to hear how you did and it sounds like you had a good safe plan. You can only shoot the fish you see, but I'm sure it was nice to get the trip under your belt regardless of the success of the shooting.
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Old 08-29-2022, 08:58 AM   #6
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Cool to see. Nice looking ledge / caves
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Old 08-29-2022, 10:18 AM   #7
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Love the Perdix AI. Best computer I have owned. See 2 new models came out. Mainly the case. For my type of diving, I'm very happy with the one I have.
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Old 08-29-2022, 12:27 PM   #8
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

I have gotten feedback from many divers that feel the Perdix is the best computer out there. So making the switch helped bolster my decision to try the deeper diving. I did not make the decision lightly and been mulling it over for some time, over a year, and had multiple discussions with many divers, both rec and tec, before going past 170'

I will tell you that I will think twice before diving the Elbow the weekend following the SPO again!
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Old 08-29-2022, 03:15 PM   #9
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbrown View Post
Didn't want to litter! But no, wouldn't have gone to bottom. Already had a minute of deco to blow off on way up. A quick drop down 15' to grab it was ok.

I was breathing 25% switching to 35% pony tank on way up once I hit 100'

Bottom time dependent on how much deco you want to do. I did 5 dives in those depths and one in 130 with at least an hour surface interval. Planned for about 6 minutes of bottom time. I just watch my no decompression time limits and when it says 1 or zero I head up.

My dives weren't very fishy, so I didn't get to watch video of how I was behaving and sequencing with repetitive shooting to see how nitrogen load was impacting my routine. I felt fine, but well aware nitrogen load is what it is and science does apply to me. That's why I got the Perdix and watch a lot of videos and pleased had no issues. We also have oxygen on boat.
I would probably just use plain old air, but that is more because I am cheap. However I am curious as to why you would choose 35% in a pony bottle for that kind of dive (super short bounce).

What are your priorities and objectives associated with that selection? Why not use air or something for the pony? FYI, I have no training in any of this, just curious about the strategy.
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Old 08-29-2022, 04:20 PM   #10
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

I start breathing off the richer mix in the pony as soon as I ascend above 100' to help start decreasing my nitrogen load. A fair amount of my time is on the ascent and I want to be breathing the richest oxygen mix I can for as long as I can.
With the Perdix, you program in your gases, and it automatically tells you when there is a more optimal programmed gas to breathe. So I just have to push a button when ascending and select it once I switch Regs. I also still did a 2 minute safety stop breathing that 35% once the computer said I was clear. That was my personal choice at above 20'.
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Old 08-29-2022, 09:58 PM   #11
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Thanks, does the computer know you are going to switch while you are on the bottom and it is giving you deco information, say like you are at 175 and it says 2 minutes deco? Or does it assume you will use the bottom gas for the entire ascent, until you tell it that you have changed gases (presumably at whatever depth this occurs) and then quickly re-calculates an ascent time?

I would think that for a very short bounce dive like that and the resulting very short deco, that switching from 25% to 35% would change your ascent time (deco) only a couple of minutes at most. Is that correct?

I am not sure I would forfeit the added safety of a bail out bottle that I could (safely) use on the bottom for a decrease in ascent time of just a few minutes. I'm curious about the logic that you are applying to the situation. Are you assuming that you could get away with 35% for the 75 seconds it might take to go from 190 to 115 feet in case of a catastrophic failure of the main gas supply? Or are you assuming that isn't going to happen?

Thanks, again I have no training in any deco diving or anything past 130 ft.

Last edited by jfjf; 08-30-2022 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 08-30-2022, 09:51 AM   #12
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

I will let Dave answer your questions as they are based on his decisions and experience, but I will add a little general knowledge.

A 6 minute dive to 170' is not a "very short bounce dive", especially if they are repetitive dives. Off the top of my head, I can't give you a direct time comparison, but doing a 6 minute dive to 170' could be compared in terms of nitrogen loading to doing an hour plus long dive at 60-70' on air. In my opinion, switching from 25% to 35% is not to shorten your ascent time, it is to increase your bottom time on subsequent dives without going into deco.
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Old 08-30-2022, 09:54 AM   #13
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
Thanks, does the computer know you are going to switch while you are on the bottom and it is giving you deco information, say like you are at 175 and it says 2 minutes deco? Or does it assume you will use the bottom gas for the entire ascent, until you tell it that you have changed gases (presumably at whatever depth this occurs) and then quickly re-calculates an ascent time?

I would think that for a very short bounce dive like that and the resulting very short deco, that switching from 25% to 35% would change your ascent time (deco) only a couple of minutes at most. Is that correct?

I am not sure I would forfeit the added safety of a bail out bottom that I could (safely) use on the bottom for a decrease in ascent time of just a few minutes. I'm curious about the logic that you are applying to the situation. Are you assuming that you could get away with 35% for the 75 seconds it might take to go from 190 to 115 feet in case of a catastrophic failure of the main gas supply? Or are you assuming that isn't going to happen?

Thanks, again I have no training in any deco diving or anything past 130 ft.
Question 1, it assumes you will use the initially programmed gas, but it highlights when a better programmed gas is available, and you'd have to manually accept that better gas on way up.

Question 2, yes.

Question 3, yes. A single pony won't be able to be a panacea for all considerations. I was not using the rationale of a Bail Out Bottle (BOB). I wanted the higher mix on way up. 35% was selected because that is what I had in the pony that's been sitting in the garage for 2 years since hydro unused and that is what I had in a steel 100 HP I could use on the boat to whip the pony with. I use about 1000 pounds of pony on way up. Started with 3100, so had to whip it 2x for the 6 dives. If I was planning to do it again, would use some rationale and go with about 60% and start hitting it at about 60' for a better wash out effect. Or another individual may use a BOB pony and a higher mix pony if they want to cover more areas of concern.

I have no training beyond my initial Nitrox cert in 1999, but read a little and have access to great mentors that routinely dive deeper than most. So please don't take what I say as gospel. Much smarter folks out there than me, but enjoy the dialogue as I love diving.
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Old 08-30-2022, 10:00 AM   #14
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverboy067 View Post
I will let Dave answer your questions as they are based on his decisions and experience, but I will add a little general knowledge.

A 6 minute dive to 170' is not a "very short bounce dive", especially if they are repetitive dives. Off the top of my head, I can't give you a direct time comparison, but doing a 6 minute dive to 170' could be compared in terms of nitrogen loading to doing an hour plus long dive at 60-70' on air. In my opinion, switching from 25% to 35% is not to shorten your ascent time, it is to increase your bottom time on subsequent dives without going into deco.
Thank you Diverboy067. Probably one of those guys who has forgotten more about it than I will ever know!

And correct, all part of the equation for building credit for the repetitive dives. Next time I'd likely use a higher mix between 57-60% after debriefing with a good friend and mentor that routinely dives deep. All went very well on this trip, but still looking forward to learning more for the next opportunity.
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Old 08-30-2022, 12:47 PM   #15
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Re: Elbow trip 8/27/22

Also, the guys you were diving with have a lot of experience doing repetitive dives at the Elbow. I'm guessing they were able to give you some good advise. Interesting discussion. Thanks for sharing.
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