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Old 02-11-2014, 10:39 PM   #16
NBSpearo
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

Dang this is gonna be way more expensive than i thought... Reel +new threaded shaft + slip tip + line +new bands
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:40 PM   #17
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

anyone one have any insight on a pole spear set up with a float?
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:48 PM   #18
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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Originally Posted by NBSpearo View Post
anyone one have any insight on a pole spear set up with a float?
You're now gonna get a wsb with a pole spear?
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:51 PM   #19
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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Originally Posted by VangysWay View Post
Using a flopper shaft period makes no sense to me. So old school its ridiculous. A guy on this board who was some sort of engineer was designing a new type of flopper that expanded once through the fish...genius design and if anyone knows the guys blog that I am talking about please post as I can't seem to find it anymore....anyways what im really trying to say is **** floppers.
Floppers are much more accurate than slip tips, easier to use and cost less 1/4 what a threaded shaft with slip tip does. And if you're not using a Mori tip, your accuracy decreases further. With a flopper you can actually pull the trigger on the reef without trashing a $100 tip. WSB can be landed with Floppers more reliably than 90% of the people on this board would like to admit.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:56 PM   #20
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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Originally Posted by VangysWay View Post
Using a flopper shaft period makes no sense to me. So old school its ridiculous. A guy on this board who was some sort of engineer was designing a new type of flopper that expanded once through the fish...genius design and if anyone knows the guys blog that I am talking about please post as I can't seem to find it anymore....anyways what im really trying to say is **** floppers.
Single floppers perhaps have a significant risk of tear-off, but in the past six years of spearing with them, I can't remember having a single tear-off with the use of low-profile, el-cheapo, screw-on double flopper tips. I could never afford even the least expensive slip tip options, never liked the idea of botching a $100 tip by shooting it into the rocks, and preferred the versatility the double-floppers offered (I could go from hunting halibut to seabass and back again without being worried about screwing my tip up).

The big problem with single floppers is that the flopper itself tends to act like a cutting edge. Upon successful penetration, the single flopper forms a wedge-like structure between itself and the shaft, between which the flesh of a soft fish is likely to give. With double floppers, properly tuned, this problem is avoided entirely, because the burden of retention is distributed across two sides of the wound the shaft creates.

Also, to be fair, I have heard PLENTY of complaints from my dive buddies about slip tips failing to deploy or otherwise engage properly after the shot.

My 2 cents. JBL makes some very high quality, heavy-duty double flopper tips. These things are huge, however, and my preference is to use something that creates a much smaller wound, which will help to further prevent a tear-off. For both WSB and Halibut, I much prefer cheap tips such as these:

http://www.scubastore.com/scuba-divi...e-tip/137497/p
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:03 PM   #21
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeirmend View Post
Single floppers perhaps have a significant risk of tear-off, but in the past six years of spearing with them, I can't remember having a single tear-off with the use of low-profile, el-cheapo, screw-on double flopper tips. I could never afford even the least expensive slip tip options, never liked the idea of botching a $100 tip by shooting it into the rocks, and preferred the versatility the double-floppers offered (I could go from hunting halibut to seabass and back again without being worried about screwing my tip up).

The big problem with single floppers is that the flopper itself tends to act like a cutting edge. Upon successful penetration, the single flopper forms a wedge-like structure between itself and the shaft, between which the flesh of a soft fish is likely to give. With double floppers, properly tuned, this problem is avoided entirely, because the burden of retention is distributed across two sides of the wound the shaft creates.

Also, to be fair, I have heard PLENTY of complaints from my dive buddies about slip tips failing to deploy or otherwise engage properly after the shot.

My 2 cents. JBL makes some very high quality, heavy-duty double flopper tips. These things are huge, however, and my preference is to use something that creates a much smaller wound, which will help to further prevent a tear-off. For both WSB and Halibut, I much prefer cheap tips such as these:

http://www.scubastore.com/scuba-divi...e-tip/137497/p
Thanks for the insight, at the end of the day it's all preference, just feel like someone would have created a more reliable "flopper" at this point in our technological history.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:09 PM   #22
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeirmend View Post
Single floppers perhaps have a significant risk of tear-off, but in the past six years of spearing with them, I can't remember having a single tear-off with the use of low-profile, el-cheapo, screw-on double flopper tips. I could never afford even the least expensive slip tip options, never liked the idea of botching a $100 tip by shooting it into the rocks, and preferred the versatility the double-floppers offered (I could go from hunting halibut to seabass and back again without being worried about screwing my tip up).

The big problem with single floppers is that the flopper itself tends to act like a cutting edge. Upon successful penetration, the single flopper forms a wedge-like structure between itself and the shaft, between which the flesh of a soft fish is likely to give. With double floppers, properly tuned, this problem is avoided entirely, because the burden of retention is distributed across two sides of the wound the shaft creates.

Also, to be fair, I have heard PLENTY of complaints from my dive buddies about slip tips failing to deploy or otherwise engage properly after the shot.

My 2 cents. JBL makes some very high quality, heavy-duty double flopper tips. These things are huge, however, and my preference is to use something that creates a much smaller wound, which will help to further prevent a tear-off. For both WSB and Halibut, I much prefer cheap tips such as these:

http://www.scubastore.com/scuba-divi...e-tip/137497/p
I have had problems in the past with my Mori tip deploying on sheephead and calicos as well.

Looking to shoot soley with a double flopper Salvimar Tricuspid tip. They have removable tips and the floppers are 3 inches long. I use orthadonic rubberbands to keep my floppers from opening up underwater.

JD, those tips you hyperlinked are the tiny ones and i have had more problems with fish tearing off than the mori. Tricuspid tips are way larger than that. Salvimar makes the best one out there but Mares has a knock off.

These are them http://www.vidrax-fishing.com/catalo...61&language=en
I can get them for 40% off if interested pm me. US distributer is liquidating everything he has.

Last edited by mainphrame; 02-11-2014 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:15 PM   #23
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

Wait, where's Dalon???
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:25 PM   #24
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

I get a lot of fish with my pole spear with a slip tip and 50ft poly float line. Def don't use a float tho. U can pm for details def don't get aluminum pole or shitty jbl slip tip for it. If you're in sd go to spear shack and mark will show u what I'm talking about with his custom ban set up. Also ask about a grip for it. This is my go to setup for everything unless I'm going to the outside kelp aka looking for big Seabass or yellowtail. I have got smaller Seabass in close with it though
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:33 PM   #25
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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Wait, where's Dalon???
....it was only a matter of time.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:37 PM   #26
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

Yeah, i used to have a jbl double flopper screw on el cheapo... But then it came off and i found it 2 months later in the spot where i lost it still perfectly usable... My point is that the double floppers can take a beating
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:51 PM   #27
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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Originally Posted by Lompoc Local View Post
Floppers are much more accurate than slip tips, easier to use and cost less 1/4 what a threaded shaft with slip tip does. And if you're not using a Mori tip, your accuracy decreases further. With a flopper you can actually pull the trigger on the reef without trashing a $100 tip. WSB can be landed with Floppers more reliably than 90% of the people on this board would like to admit.
might i add that shafts with slip tips can still bend even if its a 3/8" shaft.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:54 PM   #28
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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might i add that shafts with slip tips can still bend even if its a 3/8" shaft.
Wow really? I thought a slip tip basically meant the shaft was invincible from fish
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:54 PM   #29
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

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might i add that shafts with slip tips can still bend even if its a 3/8" shaft.
happens all the time
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:18 AM   #30
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Re: WSB Gun purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by mainphrame View Post
I have had problems in the past with my Mori tip deploying on sheephead and calicos as well.

Looking to shoot soley with a double flopper Salvimar Tricuspid tip. They have removable tips and the floppers are 3 inches long. I use orthadonic rubberbands to keep my floppers from opening up underwater.

JD, those tips you hyperlinked are the tiny ones and i have had more problems with fish tearing off than the mori. Tricuspid tips are way larger than that. Salvimar makes the best one out there but Mares has a knock off.

These are them http://www.vidrax-fishing.com/catalo...61&language=en
I can get them for 40% off if interested pm me. US distributer is liquidating everything he has.
To be fair, I've never even used the Salvimar tip I linked. It just seemed like it was a better option than the even cheaper ones I've used in the past. I would guess the longer blade double floppers you're showing would offer a higher chance of retention, as you say, but I suppose that depends on a number of other factors as well. At the end of the day, slip tip or not, it's metal, wire, or thin, strong synthetic cord up against a fish's soft meat, so there is no completely fool-proof choice. The point, however, is to not be a fool, i.e., to take good clean shots in which you have every right to be confident of retention.

To OP: whatever your choice of tip is, aim for gill plates, heads and mid-body, in that order, and tear-offs will be minimized. (Some guys can get away with very well placed tail shots in a pinch, where there is a high density of connective tissue, but that's a last resort IMO). In closing, you don't need to spend $100 on a new slip tip to take large, soft-fleshed, desirable gamefish in a responsible, sustainable, and last but not least successful manner.
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