USOA National Spearfishing Championships 2011

[dennishaussler]

Originally Posted by apexpredator

Tony if it was someone insignificant to your machinations you would have left this thread alone....but since it is Dennis speaking and he feels offended you come into it to polish your star. That is how you operate and I am not surprised.

As far as how 'fun' a Nationals can be this thread is a perfect example of how out of whack these tourneys are with what I want out of freedive spearfishing.

For the record I am sorry to have offended you Dennis but tell me how you witnessed the offense. Was the 300ft from any other boat rule in effect? Was it your intention to be on the look out for any offenses spyglassing boats from afar with binoculars. Cmawn! Is this what it is coming to.....is this crud really any fun. Did the best diver win.....isn't the default tourney winner banned from all of your (Tony's) own tourneys because of cheating at one of yours.

Maybe this is the post that gets me banned from your site although I have been a member since '04. I have had much fun though and met some great folks through it. I have also contributed a good deal of material and always have tried to help folks whenever possible. I will not curve my opinion though and for this there may be a price. I think Nationals is a jip....a no fun, high pressure, boiler room of ego and controversy.

Dennis as far as being held responsible for my words I am not worried about it...that is why I wrote what I wrote. Nothing you can say to me that is going to change my love for this sport or my participation in it. It is an awful shame I find myself at odds with you because of what I think but I still think raising a protest over something minor is petty and robbed the top competitor of his crown.

I don't have a dog in this fight....I only have my opinion and that is where I will leave it.

OK,
one more time. I respect your opinion, you are entitled to that. What I do not respect is your want to insult, offend, and make statements based on total hearsay. If you call me a snitch bitch to my face, then we are going to have words. As for the evidence, you have no right to ask for it, as you are not even a competitor, let alone a member of the protest committee. BUT, to put peoples mind at ease, we witnessed it from 50 yds away, came about, and caught up with the team, and then verfied with OUR observer that what we saw was inline with what he saw, video taped the situation, and then went on our way.
As for my intentions of running around spying on divers to make a protest???? Anyone who knows me would tell you to your face that is ludicrous! My goal is to do my best, have a good time, and promote commraderie, and the sport. So please, don;t insinuate things you know nothing about.
So please, let this drop. It was sad that it happened, and its sad that we have to argue with you about comps, protests, and rules.
You can have your opinion, no problem, just be aware of how you state it and all is good.
Thats all folks.

[Turyturbo]

Man, it is sad to see that everybody are taking it seriously about being DQed at USOA National Spearfishing Championship, while three teams got DQed at World Cup in La Paz. We all cooperated very well and moved on with fun time with other spearos.

Did the competitors sign the form at USOA National Spearfishing Championship?? If so, then too bad for them. Rule is rule, simple. They should discuss before sign the form.

[SpearMax]

Originally Posted by apexpredator

Tony if it was someone insignificant to your machinations you would have left this thread alone....but since it is Dennis speaking and he feels offended you come into it to polish your star. That is how you operate and I am not surprised.

As far as how 'fun' a Nationals can be this thread is a perfect example of how out of whack these tourneys are with what I want out of freedive spearfishing.

For the record I am sorry to have offended you Dennis but tell me how you witnessed the offense. Was the 300ft from any other boat rule in effect? Was it your intention to be on the look out for any offenses spyglassing boats from afar with binoculars. Cmawn! Is this what it is coming to.....is this crud really any fun. Did the best diver win.....isn't the default tourney winner banned from all of your (Tony's) own tourneys because of cheating at one of yours.

Maybe this is the post that gets me banned from your site although I have been a member since '04. I have had much fun though and met some great folks through it. I have also contributed a good deal of material and always have tried to help folks whenever possible. I will not curve my opinion though and for this there may be a price. I think Nationals is a jip....a no fun, high pressure, boiler room of ego and controversy.

Dennis as far as being held responsible for my words I am not worried about it...that is why I wrote what I wrote. Nothing you can say to me that is going to change my love for this sport or my participation in it. It is an awful shame I find myself at odds with you because of what I think but I still think raising a protest over something minor is petty and robbed the top competitor of his crown.

I don't have a dog in this fight....I only have my opinion and that is where I will leave it.

Believe me Emil, I saw your machinations last night and held back in responding. You are a poster boy for the problem with wierd twisted logic of why competing in the Nationals is not for you and all you do is try to rain on the parade expressing negative opinions about why cheaters should win.

If you did not notice Emil, I was the first to correct the misperception Harolf did not win and to congratulate him. What happened in the past is there - in the past.

You should try that positive approach. Instead of looking at the big picture, your negative attitude approach is to cast doubt on the Nationals and espouse a strange logic that cheating is OK.

Please stop posting in this thread and fueling the myths about Nationals you seem to believe from your armchair seat of wisdom. Thank you.

[apexpredator]

Look Tony...I came into this thread to back up a couple of friends of mine and to state my opinion. JC's post seemed harsh but stated why he will not participate again in a Nationals. His experience at his first one left him with such a bad taste in his mouth that he will not do another.

I was rather complementary of the event with the report of my experience and explained not all of them are the same and much has to do with the hosting team and venue. My wife and I had a rather good time at the same one that killed the experience for JC.

The second post was to let someone know that Cameron....a person who is personally responsible for much traffic to your site at no personal gain is a great diver and ambassador to the sport... deserves a little more respect than to be called a 'pussy' for not participating at Nationals.

As far as me condoning cheating I think you are going a bit far on that. If it was a blatant and severe offense I may find myself compelled to report it or complain but most of the time when I dive I concentrate on what I am doing and the safety of my dive partners.

Actually last week I was more busy preparing an entry for a IUSA World Record and writing a story about the dive and hunt to give Nationals much thought....other than hoping for good luck and a safe trip to my friends and the other competitors participating in the event.

I'll go ahead and drop it after this but make no mistake there is no Machiavellian plan behind my posts...just my opinion.

Dennis I hope you will accept my apology as the term 'snitch bitch' was not directed at you specifically.....it was a generalized term I used to categorize people who lurk at not only this but many of the other competitions who seem to get more from thrashing the competitors instead of focusing on how to improve their own standing by applying themselves to their diving and hunting vs. going on a 'cheater' witch hunt. Again this is not directed at you, your team, the USOA, Nationals etc. ...it is just a generalization that I think some may concur with.

[SpearMax]

Originally Posted by apexpredator

Look Tony...I came into this thread to back up a couple of friends of mine and to state my opinion. JC's post seemed harsh but stated why he will not participate again in a Nationals. His experience at his first one left him with such a bad taste in his mouth that he will not do another.

I was rather complementary of the event with the report of my experience and explained not all of them are the same and much has to do with the hosting team and venue. My wife and I had a rather good time at the same one that killed the experience for JC.

The second post was to let someone know that Cameron....a person who is personally responsible for much traffic to your site at no personal gain is a great diver and ambassador to the sport... deserves a little more respect than to be called a 'pussy' for not participating at Nationals.

As far as me condoning cheating I think you are going a bit far on that. If it was a blatant and severe offense I may find myself compelled to report it or complain but most of the time when I dive I concentrate on what I am doing and the safety of my dive partners.

Actually last week I was more busy preparing an entry for a IUSA World Record and writing a story about the dive and hunt to give Nationals much thought....other than hoping for good luck and a safe trip to my friends and the other competitors participating in the event.

I'll go ahead and drop it after this but make no mistake there is no Machiavellian plan behind my posts...just my opinion.

Dennis I hope you will accept my apology as the term 'snitch bitch' was not directed at you specifically.....it was a generalized term I used to categorize people who lurk at not only this but many of the other competitions who seem to get more from thrashing the competitors instead of focusing on how to improve their own standing by applying themselves to their diving and hunting vs. going on a 'cheater' witch hunt. Again this is not directed at you, your team, the USOA, Nationals etc. ...it is just a generalization that I think some may concur with.

Emil, thanks for a reasonable response. As Carol put it, let's move on. Peace, Tony

[Ballenita]

Harry - Imagine 50-100 loaded guns bouncing around on boats all day. It's an accident waiting to happen!

Yep and and it never did!

Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone

Not trying to justify the violation, but I bet there were many of competitors out there with loaded guns on there boat!

I have a serious problem with this crap! Why in the hell did the guys who "observed the loaded gun on the damn boat, not have the courtesy of letting them know that it was illegal to have a loaded gun on the damn boat! To me, they are just as guilty! If some thing would have happened, then the situation would probably have not come to light because you saw it and did not said something in order to prevent the problem form happening. Again, I'm not trying to justify a grown mans actions. But I know I sure as hell would have given them a shout and the courtesy warning that any fellow spearo would have deserve. Especially two awsome divers like them. I also heard something about the rules not being published in spanish and they did in fact ask for them? Is this true? If so, could one of the hundreds of spanish speaking spearos competing have translated it for them? Just curious.

[SpearMax]

Originally Posted by Ballenita

Not trying to justify the violation, but I bet there were many of competitors out there with loaded guns on there boat!

You are right Ballenita - it does not justify the violation. But, if the rule was broken by others who did not get caught, there may be an issue with competitors AND observers not clearly knowing the rules whether in English or any other language. I was not there, but I asked one team captain by phone today whom I know personally and he said his team knew that loaded guns rule and followed it properly. Hopefully, everyone else knew it. However, the following principle may apply:

"Ignorantia juris non excusat" or "ignorantia legis neminem excusat" (Latin for "ignorance of the law does not excuse" or "ignorance of the law excuses no one") is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he or she was unaware of its content.

Originally Posted by Ballenita

I have a serious problem with this crap! Why in the hell did the guys who "observed the loaded gun on the damn boat, not have the courtesy of letting them know that it was illegal to have a loaded gun on the damn boat! To me, they are just as guilty!

Ballenita, I know you are a good guy and appreciate your thoughts on this subject. But, are you implying that a rule breaker catcher is as guilty as a rule breaker? Since you and I were not on that particular scene, we should wait to see how they respond since this subject seems to have a life of its own without Emil's continuance of it. So, in the ineterest of clarity, I looked at the rules myself as follows:

Here are the USOA rules from the website:

RULES GOVERNING FREE DIVING SPEARFISHING CHAMPIONSHIPS

4.1 This event shall consist of freediving spearfishing only; no artificial breathing apparatus will be allowed.

4.1.1 Competitors shall be swimming in or under the water when the spear is used.

4.1.2 Every competitor must enter the water with a float.

4.2 The competition may be land, ship or boat based, as determined by the Meet Committee.

4.2.1 In land based competition, divers must enter and leave the water only in the staging area and must check in with a designated official.

4.2.1.1 In land based competitions where kayaks/paddle boards are used, there shall be a travel time at the beginning and at the end of the competition. (2006)

4.2.1.1.1 The travel time shall be approximately equal to the time taken by an average paddler to reach the furthest point of the meet area from the staging area.

4.2.1.1.2 The travel time option must be indicated in the bid. (1999)

4.2.2 In boat based competition, each team will be transported by one boat equipped with a motor.

4.2.2.1 Where boats are used to travel several miles during the competition, every effort must be made to assure that all boats are operated as though they had equal power with 30 MPH being the top speed for any boat during the competition. (2003)

4.2.2.2 The minimum travel time for boat based meets shall be equal to the time it takes the average boat in the meet to reach the farthest point of the meet area. (2003)

4.2.2.3 Team members may use the boat to carry spare equipment, to repair equipment, to rest and to remove fish from their spears.

4.2.3 In ship based meets, all competitors work from one or more boats at the staging area in place of a land staging area, and the rules are to be identical to those in a land based meet.

4.3 General Regulations

4.3.1 Team members must check in with a designated official when returning to the staging area.

4.3.2 Spear guns shall be loaded in the water and unloaded before leaving the water.

4.3.3 Since local conditions such as tides, weather, water temperatures, visibility, fish species and size, conservation principles and legal regulations vary from area to area, those rules are designed to be flexible.

4.3.3.1 These rules give the local Meet Committee sufficient latitude to conduct a well-organized and safe meet.

4.3.4 Final determination of such items as: diving area, duration, allowed fish species, etc. should be made by the Meet Committee within the limitations of the following rules.

4.3.5 The following rules will also take precedence over all local, state, provincial or Council rules under the jurisdiction of the USOA.

4.3.5.1 Team members may help each other land fish. (1997)

4.3.5.2 No other swimmers shall be permitted to help.

4.3.5.3 Judges may not assist team members except 4.3.5.3.1 Judges may assist team members to mark fish or in case of illness or injury.

4.3.5.4 Team members must keep catches separated. (2003)

For the rest of these rules go to this link:

http://www.spearfishingnationals.com...ment/usoa_regs

[Ballenita]

Tony, ignorance should never be used as an excuse. Again, I am never gonna try to justify somebody else's mistakes. What I am simply stating is that everybody there knew on the second day that those two hardcore divers were in the lead. As a fellow spearo, even if I were in a close tie for second, I would hate to see someone like those two guys, who were fishing their asses off in an area where there were little fish and catch what they did, DQ'd for something as stupid as that. I would have yeld at them and told them to fix the problem as a courtesy. After all, aren't we supposed to look out for each other. I can't see myself getting any points for snitching out an opponent for that. Again, rules are rules and they must be followed, but we are all human and are all guilty of one thing if not another.

[Ed Walker]

I have a great deal of respect and admiriration for the guys that shot a lot of fish in this tourney. They are far better freedivers than me. We enjoyed being a part of the tourney with this collection of world class freedivers.
We however never had a loaded speargun on our boat and swallowed a bitter pill staying inside the 12 mile limit while the fishing fleet hammered the mahi and whaoo within sight us, a mile outside where we were allowed to go. The fish moved outside the boudary and we suffered for it. It hurt us badly to not cross the line but we did not. Such is fishing.
We could have bent the rules and likey done well, but we didnt. We play fair ball. A rule is a rule guys, regardless of how insignificant, you play fair or you lose.
I saw the fish those those guys had and they were quite impressive. Loaded guns on a boat however are foolish, I dont care who you are. As council reps for our our area I would have voted the same way: DQ for breaking a written and clearly stated rule.
Dont hate the messengers guys, you made a mistake and its no one elses fault but yours.
To the winners, my hat is off, you guys deserve it to put up those numbers in those conditions. You have my congratulations.

[Ed Walker]

And make no mistake about it: Dennis H helped this tournament a lot by being unafraid to talk the loudest and stating crystal clear that the rules are the rules, you obey them or you are out. We need a guy like him at every tournament IMO.
Great job DH!

[jfjf]

Here are the USOA rules from the website:

Quote:
RULES GOVERNING FREE DIVING SPEARFISHING CHAMPIONSHIPS

4.1 This event shall consist of freediving spearfishing only; no artificial breathing apparatus will be allowed.

4.1.1 Competitors shall be swimming in or under the water when the spear is used.

4.1.2 Every competitor must enter the water with a float.


Rule 4.1.2 appears to indicate that reel guns would not be allowed. Surely that is not the intent? What is the correct interpretation of this rule?

[hawgdawg]

Jiffy,

go back to work, don't you have something better to do?

[kitespearo]

Originally Posted by jfjf

Here are the USOA rules from the website:

Quote:
RULES GOVERNING FREE DIVING SPEARFISHING CHAMPIONSHIPS

4.1 This event shall consist of freediving spearfishing only; no artificial breathing apparatus will be allowed.

4.1.1 Competitors shall be swimming in or under the water when the spear is used.

4.1.2 Every competitor must enter the water with a float.


Rule 4.1.2 appears to indicate that reel guns would not be allowed. Surely that is not the intent? What is the correct interpretation of this rule?

Jim what they mean by that rule is that all spearos need to wear floaties (aka water wings).

[Adelito]

Wow, am I shocked at what some of you have to say.

As the Hosting council President, and a competitor let me set some of you straight.

Competition isn't for everyone, we got that already. But to say that competition brings out the worst in people is ignorant. Competition only brings out the worst in people, if it was there to begin with. If you are a good sportsman, a good diver, and are not intimidated by honest and hard competition, you will be addicted to this tournament.

Since I am entitled to my opinion, let me tell you that competition makes you a better diver. Every year I have gone to a new location, learned the fish, their tendencies, behaviors, How to find them, how to stalk them, etc.....
Also, I have met some of the best divers, and most interesting people because of this very tournament.

Example, I was honored to have the pleasure of sharing a table with Bill Ernst and his family. Bill is a legend, plain and simple. Amanda will be the best Female Diver of ALL-TIME I am sure. And guess what, I got to hear stories, and get advice from them for 3 hours. Well worth the $140 entrance for me and my girlfriend.

As for competition dividing people, and putting people against each other, another big load of B.S.

Dennis Hausler and I have a well documented history on Spearboard. But guess what, we both have the same passion for the sport, competition, and the development of spearfishing . A brief conversation, a couple of head nods, and we are on the same page.



As luck would have it, I won a trip to Palapas Ventanas, and I will be participating in his tournament next year!!!

Now, if you are not mature enough to accept people beating you, or dont have the will to try harder, get better, and give it your best next year, then absolutely competition is not for you.

And Nationals is only a reflection of the Health of Our sport. The more clubs we have, and people involved the more popular and accepted this sport will become. So to bash nationals, is also spitting in the faces of many clubs and its members.

Why the F*c$ should I join a club? Well, nationals completely aside, its the best way of having a mentoring program. Every person starting out should look to a club, and not just a freediving class to get you started or get you better.

Example, When I started with the Longfins I was a 40ft diver at best. I could only shoot hogs and reds, and missed everything else. Fast forward five years, I have shot fish around the country, Hold an IUSA World record, and won several competitions. What helped?

Well, Alex Bristol, Erick Salado, Harolf Dean, Jose santeiro, Miguel Guinovart, julian Cruz, Tony Miranda and a few other competitors from this years nationals all taught me a million different things.

On that note, Harolf Dean rode a roller coaster of emotions during this years nationals, not because of his final place in the standings, but because as he was recieving the news of victory, he also recieved the news of the biggest loss of his life, his mother lost her fight with cancer earlier that very day. Please keep him and his family in your thoughts and prayers.

With that in mind, I hope that everyone Remebers that this nationals was dedicated to an ambassador of the sport, LARRY CARTER
Whom I demand respect for, and therein the competition in his HONOR.

As for Lazaro Cabrera, I am very disappointed with the results concerning his infraction, but am consoled with the fact that the observer did his job.

Lazaro is one of the best Divers in the country, he demonstrated it last year with only 4 days of scouting, and this year with his impressive stringers.

As for the rule in question, yes rules are rules. Is it a stupid rule, no way. I know of a great diver who shot his son last year for this same habit of not unloading his gun.

Does it make a difference? YES, I personally unloaded my gun +-30 times that day, and missed 2 fish by jumping in unloaded. Currently I have aggravated my old baseball shoulder injuries, and am in pain.

As for who is to blame for this DQ? The diver, it was load and clear at the captains meeting that this was illegal, and would result in DQ. I am very sorry it happened to him, but at the time the protest was filed, he had not wieghed in yet, so nobody knew where he stood.

I feel very bad for Lazaro and his team. I hope he will continue to compete, and still considers me a friend. I thank god I didn't have to be part of that committee.

Would I expect for this to happen to me? YES.

Does it suck, and I wished he never had those guns loaded? YES

All and all I feel proud to have been part of this tournament. I was able to witness the genius of Richard Meder from www.spearotek.com, who created the LIVE interactive wiegh in results database, was the website creator and manager, and was a moving force behind every great this this competition had.

I watched Parinaz Bristol sacrifice herself to the max doing grunt work to get this thing ready. She even had to race to the ER as her baby boy suffered serious 2nd degree burns on both his feet running around a play ground barefoot during day care. Yet she still managed to do all the last minute logistical work that was running down to the wire.

I was blessed to see my partner Rosibel Molina top not just all the women, but many talented am experienced male divers. She says this competition inspired her to continue her passion for record setting dives. It will be very exciting to see.

The ages ranged from 15-70, I dont think the history and the future of spearfishing has ever competed so elegantly together.

If you aren't able to see all the positives this tournament had, then you just havent competed enough to know the difference.

BUT IF BY ANY CHANCE, YOU FEEL THAT THERE IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, JOIN IN, MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. ITS EASY TO CRITICIZE, CHALLENGE YOURSELF TO CHANGE THINGS.

Hope you understand, SEE YOU IN CALIFORNIA NEXT YEAR!

[Adelito]

Originally Posted by kitespearo

Jim what they mean by that rule is that all spearos need to wear floaties (aka water wings).