USOA National Spearfishing Championships 2011

[macsub]

It's interesting to read through all the comments here. I have to say that the tournament was a great experience for me, besides the DQ, of course. I am not going to cry about it, it's over now.

This is a hunting game, and loaded guns are part of the equation. A loaded gun is dangerous in the wrong hands but it is safe if you know how to handle it. It doesn’t matter where you are, it is about how you handle it.
Leaving a loaded gun/weapon unattended is unacceptable in any circumstance. That’s very clear for me and my team. Safety is our top priority.

"50-100 loaded guns bouncing all day"
Very funny. You have a lot of imagination. I would never do that even if it was allowed. Maybe you would.

The rules are the rules and should always be, but the tricky part, at least for me, is that some of them seem to be more flexible than others. How nice would it be if ALL the rules were clearly written at least 10 days before the competition. No last minute changes. The only late changes allowed should be weather related.
More than half the divers broke the float rule, and many boats broke the 30MPH limit rule, just to give two examples. If some rules are that flexible, they should be called suggestions instead of actual rules. Just my opinion.

Sitting in the platform at the back of the boat, facing the ocean, with your legs half way still on the water, with the gun in your hands, is a very different scenario to me. I am ok with myself because I never put anybody’s safety at risk.

I had the honor to team with two exceptional divers, I learned a lot and I met some other great people and friends too. I feel good to have contributed with 12 fish to my team, being my first competition of this kind.

For those who were quick to call us cheaters, as if we tried to do or hide something illegal and take advantage, please, you know nothing about my ethics, so go f*k yourself and don't call me names.

It was a great event overall and Lazaro was clearly the top diver, both days.
Congratulations to all participants and organizers.
Dive safe.

[Mattedhead]

Originally Posted by Cbuzo

It seems like your the typical lame bad looser. you state that ;

1) "" plus the fact that cheating and intrigue are par for the course "" yet you give no evidence of your claim , seems like immature childish accusations . Its a good thing you don't plan to attend a event like this again since its obvious you lack the skills and character to represent the United States on a International event.

2)vCam is a way better diver, sportsman, and person than them, and they then make complaints against him... ""Cam is a way better diver, sportsman, and person than them, and they then make complaints against him"".... Divers like Harolf Dean , Miguel Ginovart , Terry Lentz , Bill Earns , Dennis Haussler, Dan Silviera , Justin Allen , and many others divers who had the honors to represent us . Divers like Cameron Kirkconell shouldn't get respect as divers , there nobody They never compete in Nationals b/c their to pussified to get beaten. He's a great diver no doubt but its a shame he has never even tried to represent this beautiful country of our. Winning nationals its tough most of the time its won with home-field advantage. This is why many divers are reluctant to participate b/c their scared of loosing . Next year Nationals is going to be in California , most likely Dan Silviera or another local diver takes the top spots , Many florida divers will go to compete b/c even though the odds its going to be tough to win there and most likely we won't win , Real spirit of spearfishing its to support and enjoy the competition , loosing its just part of the game ,

Sea-Bozo:

You might want to remove all of the diver's names that you used in your post (especially considering you spelled most of them incorrectly)...I have a feeling they certainly don't want to be associated with your nonsense. In your own words...it's obvious you lack the skills and character to represent this country in an international event. Not all great divers are contest driven...and certainly not all tournament divers are exceptionally skilled. Fortunately, many divers choose to hunt for the love of the sport, the challenge and the fellowship. Some don't see the need to harvest fish for plastic trophies. Competition can often ruin the very things you love about an activity. You should be able to respect that...it's unfortunate that you don't.

Best of luck gaining a bit of perspective about this activity we all enjoy.

[Ballenita]

Not all great divers are contest driven...and certainly not all tournament divers are exceptionally skilled. Fortunately, many divers choose to hunt for the love of the sport, the challenge and the fellowship. Some don't see the need to harvest fish for plastic trophies. Competition can often ruin the very things you love about an activity.

AMEN!
Very Well Said!

[christopher.alv]

FYI: The Rules and Regulations might have been verbalized during the meeting and listed on the book but everyone knows Lazaro and his team do not speak, read or understand English. It's really unfortunate that a Spanish interpreter was no present or that any fellow members translated.
Reflection: Several divers came in at 30mph yet they were not DQ?? If your going to go by the rules why didn't the rules apply to every one? and while we are on the subject of RULES... It's against the Rules to vote twice regarding a vote. When the first vote was cast they voted against Disqualifying the team after witnessing the so called "evidence" submitted by Dennis and his crew (who let's not forget were competing as well) did not clearly show the guns loaded. After much discussion Dennis cast a second vote to DQ the divers. It's funny how they were able to find a Spanish interpreter to tell them they were DQ but not prior to the competition to interpret the Rules.

I love the sport as well but after witnessing the BS they conspired against those divers- I won't be entering in any competitions with corrupted people manipulating the sport the way they did.

[Ballenita]

It's against the Rules to vote twice regarding a vote.

Is this true? If so, I am curious as to which way the first "two" votes went. It is my understanding that they had 3 votes? Just curious.

[SpearMax]

Originally Posted by Ballenita

Not trying to justify the violation, but I bet there were many of competitors out there with loaded guns on there boat!

I have a serious problem with this crap! Why in the hell did the guys who "observed the loaded gun on the damn boat, not have the courtesy of letting them know that it was illegal to have a loaded gun on the damn boat! To me, they are just as guilty! If some thing would have happened, then the situation would probably have not come to light because you saw it and did not said something in order to prevent the problem form happening. Again, I'm not trying to justify a grown mans actions. But I know I sure as hell would have given them a shout and the courtesy warning that any fellow spearo would have deserve. Especially two awsome divers like them. I also heard something about the rules not being published in spanish and they did in fact ask for them? Is this true? If so, could one of the hundreds of spanish speaking spearos competing have translated it for them? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Ballenita

Tony, ignorance should never be used as an excuse. Again, I am never gonna try to justify somebody else's mistakes. What I am simply stating is that everybody there knew on the second day that those two hardcore divers were in the lead.

Originally Posted by Adelito

As for who is to blame for this DQ? The diver, it was load and clear at the captains meeting that this was illegal, and would result in DQ. I am very sorry it happened to him, but at the time the protest was filed, he had not wieghed in yet, so nobody knew where he stood.

Ballenita, please drop this issue of implying that the team was DQ'd unfairly. Adelito summed up the situation in the best way in his long post above. The event is over and everyone should look forward to next Nationals as Adelito urges. Thanks, Tony

[Muay Thai]

Language and knowing of the rule was never in question. During the protest, the Team clearly stated their guns were never loaded while on the boat.

Scott

[ArtemisGunn]

11 pages of drama, right off from the get'go, till the very last page! Another thread about another contest unfolded about the same, what gives? If the committee (s) organizing these events can't keep it ALL clean then why have them? Rules are rules so its been said, so enforce ALL the rules equally, boats coming in at 30, DQ their ass, loaded guns, DQ'em, no floats, DQ,cu, late by a sec, DQ, no exception, no slack, no BS rules all enforced equally- is that to complicated if so then either don't have them (rules) or don't enforce any of them...Isn't the Nationals about getting the best divers that spearfish (very important to mention-SPEARFISH) to represent us at the worlds, this is a real quick way to determine the best spearfisherman to represent us, so once we DQ all our "Great National divers" we should have a real winner to represent us right?

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by ArtemisGunn

Isn't the Nationals about getting the best divers that spearfish (very important to mention-SPEARFISH) to represent us at the worlds, this is a real quick way to determine the best spearfisherman to represent us, so once we DQ all our "Great National divers" we should have a real winner to represent us right?

Are you saying that they don't enforce rules at the Worlds?

If so, I guess we could send our "great national divers" (whatever that means) without worrying that they couldn't follow rules in the Nationals.

Great idea.

[Mattedhead]

Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre

Are you saying that they don't enforce rules at the Worlds?

If so, I guess we could send our "great national divers" (whatever that means) without worrying that they couldn't follow rules in the Nationals.

Great idea.

Logic has no place on this board Bill and you know it....20 demerits for you.

[Leo Ramos]

Hello everyone,
I have been reading all about the loaded gun issue, but no one has mention the old, rotted fish that was left in a bag and not weighed - in.
I understand that these fish belonged to Lazzaro's team. If so, this should constitute a DQ for the entire tournament and disciplinary action ( No nationals for 2 yrs? ).
Anyone that tries to weigh fish that were not caught that day or by someone else is a very bad thing to do in my book.
I hope the next nationals in south florida remembers all the bad karma and support that this years nationals displayed.

Sincerely,
Leo Ramos

[Muay Thai]

Yes, there were several fish questioned from the team during the weigh-in but they were allowed to be weighed-in. They were however, put aside in a separate bag in case a protest was filed later - which never happened.

What everybody needs to understand is it's not whether somebody sees you break a rule or not, it's whether or not somebody bothers to file a protest against you. Even Dennis being the USOA Freediving Director personally witnessing a rule infraction can’t just disqualify a team. He has to follow procedure (just like any other competitor). The procedure is that $50 must be put up and a formal protest filed no later than 30 min after completion of the weigh-in. During the protest both sides of the story are heard by the protest committee (1 member from each council/club represented at the Nats, the USOA President and any Regional VPs present – the Director only votes if there’s a tie). If you lose your protest, you lose your $50, if you win you get it back. And yes, there was an interpreter present at the protest. The accused team was an active part of the protest, up until the vote was taken then they were asked to leave. The Team gave their side of the story and answered any questions the Committee had. The person bringing forth the protest also had to do the same as did all the witnesses.

Scott

[Marco]

It is a shame how it ended up, but if it is a rule and was clearly stated at the meeting, the DQ is right.

It is not allowed to have loaded guns out of the water in Europe, so probably that will also be a rule in the world cup.

[flamencoguru]

Originally Posted by Cbuzo

. Divers like Cameron Kirkconell shouldn't get respect as divers , there nobody They never compete in Nationals b/c their to pussified to get beaten. He's a great diver no doubt but its a shame he has never even tried to represent this beautiful country of our. Winning nationals its tough most of the time its won with home-field advantage. This is why many divers are reluctant to participate b/c their scared of loosing . Next year Nationals is going to be in California , most likely Dan Silviera or another local diver takes the top spots , Many florida divers will go to compete b/c even though the odds its going to be tough to win there and most likely we won't win , Real spirit of spearfishing its to support and enjoy the competition , loosing its just part of the game ,

Juan,

Please tell me your not serious about this.... Did you realize what you wrote??? Did you ever consider they he may just feel absolutely no need to compete and that he fishes because of his pure love of the sport??? Mind boggleing.....

[Adelito]

Originally Posted by flamencoguru

Juan,

Please tell me your not serious about this.... Did you release what you wrote??? Did you ever consider they he may just feel absolutely no need to compete and that he fishes because of his pure love of the sport??? Mind boggleing.....

Why would you bring this up nearly 3 months after the last post?

I understand you are fairly new to the sport, and have limited experiance in the competitive arena, but his statements wildly describe an ever growing trend.

The desire to compete is completely eclipsed by the desire to win. Las vegas odds are no good for some guys.... they need to have an big advantage( local knowledge, weeks scouting, 70mph/30ft boats) and if they dont, they wont show up.....ever.


The fact that you dropped out of this years nationals I think says alot about you, and I constantly see highly Over opinionated statements with a very condecending tone towards alot of experiance divers.

Is Martin and nikkii aware everything you post? I am sure there is a code of conduct


Before you get all emotional, I am a big believer in the best reason to dive, is what ever reason is best for you. That said, I am a bigger admirer of diving ability, how and where people harvest there fish, more so than photo shop fish porn....