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Northern Atlantic: New England States An area for the cold water divers of the New England States.

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Old 04-16-2020, 07:40 AM   #31
prop
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

b.s. regulations in ny. check the surrounding states for tog.
nj

Tautog 15 inches
4 fish Jan. 1 – Feb. 28
4 fish Apr. 1 – Apr. 30
1 fish Aug. 1 – Nov. 15
5 fish Nov. 16 – Dec. 31
conn.
Tautog (Blackfish)
Minimum length: 16 inches
Open Season: April 1 - April 30, 2 fish per angler
Open Season: July 1 - August 31, 2 fish per angler
Open Season: October 10 - Nov. 28, 3 fish per angler

rhode island

16"

Sub-Periods
4/1 - 5/31
8/1 - 9/15
10/15 - 12/31

10 fish/vsl/day

ny

16"
2 fish April 1 - April 30

4 fish
Oct 15 - Dec 22

do any of them know what they are talking about?
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Old 04-16-2020, 04:01 PM   #32
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

Look into it on a case by case basis and see what you think.

That's about as far from a "one reg set fits all fish" as you can get if there was such a thing. I know nothing specifically about each states tog stock, tog landings, fishing effort or what gathered information they are basing thier decisions on in any of those states other than my own. One states Tog compared to anothers can be very different. It's about as 180 degrees as you can get from a north south highly migratory fish like bass where the same stock is shared across many states. Tog are relatively speaking homebodies as fish go.
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Old 04-17-2020, 06:59 AM   #33
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

yeah and if you see all the tog underwater like we do you know there are plenty around. back to the striper issue ,here is a quote from one of the local well know captains who has been fishing and hunting these waters for 50 years.

saw a window today of good weather for about 3 hours so I got out of the house and went fishing for flounder. I did not catch a flounder but was pleasantly surprised with 7 striped bass. they were from 15 to 29 inches and it was fun catching them on light flounder rigs. Looks like the striped bass are producing lots of babies and that bodes well for this great game fish. I still do not get my head around the new regulations. Its all geared to the party boats and they threw the live bait trophy striped bass for hire Captains under the bus. Could have had a one trophy fish per day per boat and upped the lower end of the slot size and still made better than an 18 percent reduction. Or maybe a special purchase stamp for a certain number of larger fish for the for hire Captains.

well said
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Old 04-17-2020, 01:23 PM   #34
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

The catching of seven variably small bass and inferring that they are making "plenty" of babies each yr is not really how I want anything managed. Personally from a diving standpoint I'm seeing a large number of a certain young yr/size class bass at a few of my dive sites. It's good to see and reassuring but I'm not making wide overall stock assessments from it in my head.

All of that is being extremely unfair to the guy quoted above though. I do get the general sentiment he's just trying to convey with a pleasant anecdote. It's true the future of bass is not doom and gloom at all. Not even close. It's also true that there's a myriad of ways to accomplish the target cut whether you agree with needing that sizable of a take cut or not. On the surface I like his spitballing of ideas to help people out. I know plenty who depend on chartering clients for specifically big bass on one hand and want the best for them. I feel for them personally. Things get complicated quick with larger general management implications though with some of those thoughts. Idk what the equitable distribution would look like. Can I place charter interests above a private guy who also wants big fish? Can I place small charters above headbeats? What about comercials? We are talking about a public resource here. The fish belong to us all. That's the idea of how game management is approached in this country and I agree with that. I can't get behind something that puts a limited amount of big fish (a public owned resource) in the the hands of only people who can pay for a small charter, have a business etc. etc. you get the idea of where that road goes. It's akin to the situation of the king owning the deer and a dangerous path in my opinion.

Personally with fish I wouldn't want to see the tangle of regulation, lotteries, auctions, and so on along with the respective issues that would accompany them while attempting to keep it in the spirit of a fair publicly owened resource unless absolutely necessary. I hope we never ever get there.

People automatically think that the term "overfishing" is always predicting doom and gloom or saying that we are "running" out of fish right this minute. As is the case with bass it's just not true and nobody is actually saying that. The bass stock is not in imminent danger or in some position poised for collapse. This is more about pumping the brakes a bit to ensure a large robust stock that took considerable effort gets back to primetime shape and continues to provide. I would have liked to see a more reactive management approach throughout previous years so things are not how they are right now regulation wise but that's just bitching over spilled milk.

What just amazes me though is how people build businesses, make livings, and just plain enjoy world class bass fishing all on a public resource for so many years and believe that it all became a reality without intention on our part. That didn't happen in spite of us in this particular case. In the case of bass its very evident that none of that would have been possible longterm and certainly not at this scale without getting looked after.
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Old 04-18-2020, 07:18 AM   #35
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

it`s just more government managed by people who don`t know jack.they just make up numbers and models to justify their positions .it`s like yogi berra said "predictions are hard to make especially about the future"
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Old 04-18-2020, 07:21 AM   #36
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

These people went to school with the goal of protecting these fisheries from this exact lack of awareness. I’m in awe of your opinion on this. They have already saved this species from us once, brought it back from nothing and your complaining about a minor concession in your ability to harvest based on nothing but narcissism and anecdotes like “ I caught 7 “

Thank god we have these people to ensure the future harvesting of these fish. If it was left to you my son would never have the opportunity in 20 years to fish for anything.
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Old 04-18-2020, 08:12 PM   #37
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

Quote:
it`s just more government managed by people who don`t know jack.they just make up numbers and models to justify their positions .it`s like yogi berra said "predictions are hard to make especially about the future"
It's very easy to just be critical but it's not constructive without an alternative. If that's what you believe one hundred percent then what exactly is your alternative? Who are the people who do know shit? How would you like to see fisheries managed?

Predicting the future is without a doubt one of the hardest things humans do even with the best possible information and sometimes we err on the safe side but....

"You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going, because you might not get there." Yogi
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Old 04-18-2020, 09:06 PM   #38
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

I know this is going to open up a whole can of worms, but I really think we need to talk about it in relation to all of this.

Can we address the culture of trophy fish?? I think we all really need to take a look at why we have the drive to take the largest fish possible. What is your motivation. Are you fishing purely for the table, taking a trophy fish to culminate years of learning and experience, or taking a trophy fish to post a cool pic on Instagram to flex. I know the last example is exaggerating, but I do think there is a problem with ego in the spearfishing community, and I'm not making any friends highlighting this.

I am only bringing this up to plead with everyone to consider their intrinsic goals and make sure they match up with how they harvest fish. I will admit that I catch myself focusing too much on the size of the fish i'm harvesting and not just enjoying the experience. I think a little mindfulness when out on the water for the day could take the frustration of not seeing larger fish away, and help us to refocus on safety, conservation, and the friends we spear with.

Hope this didn't rile anyone up too much.
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Old 04-19-2020, 07:23 AM   #39
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

"These people went to school with the goal of protecting these fisheries from this exact lack of awareness."

talk about lack of awareness. a few years ago me and my buddy were putting in at camp hero when a dec agent rolled up.he said we couldn`t shoot striped bass with a speargun.i tried to explain to him that that was in the rivers only he said their lawyers had been researching it and we can`t shoot bass.when my bud asked him if we could shoot other fish ,he said he wasn`t sure and asked for my phone number.he told me he would get back to me.i`m still waiting for the call.i got his name and looked him up on the web.he grew up upstate and just got on the job.yeah schooling and lack of awareness .seems to hand in hand.
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Old 04-19-2020, 12:28 PM   #40
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

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Originally Posted by prop View Post
"These people went to school with the goal of protecting these fisheries from this exact lack of awareness."

talk about lack of awareness. a few years ago me and my buddy were putting in at camp hero when a dec agent rolled up.he said we couldn`t shoot striped bass with a speargun.i tried to explain to him that that was in the rivers only he said their lawyers had been researching it and we can`t shoot bass.when my bud asked him if we could shoot other fish ,he said he wasn`t sure and asked for my phone number.he told me he would get back to me.i`m still waiting for the call.i got his name and looked him up on the web.he grew up upstate and just got on the job.yeah schooling and lack of awareness .seems to hand in hand.

You think that guy is the one making the laws? You’re completely out of your element here. You’ll be back to harvesting big fish in a few years and will have more opportunities. I really don’t even understand what there is to complain about, we can still harvest bass and the population is going to benefit.
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Old 04-19-2020, 12:30 PM   #41
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

Quote:
Originally Posted by prop View Post
"These people went to school with the goal of protecting these fisheries from this exact lack of awareness."

talk about lack of awareness. a few years ago me and my buddy were putting in at camp hero when a dec agent rolled up.he said we couldn`t shoot striped bass with a speargun.i tried to explain to him that that was in the rivers only he said their lawyers had been researching it and we can`t shoot bass.when my bud asked him if we could shoot other fish ,he said he wasn`t sure and asked for my phone number.he told me he would get back to me.i`m still waiting for the call.i got his name and looked him up on the web.he grew up upstate and just got on the job.yeah schooling and lack of awareness .seems to hand in hand.

And again one anecdotal experience has no relation to a coast wide regulation.


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Old 04-19-2020, 01:12 PM   #42
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

Quote:
"These people went to school with the goal of protecting these fisheries from this exact lack of awareness."

talk about lack of awareness. a few years ago me and my buddy were putting in at camp hero when a dec agent rolled up.he said we couldn`t shoot striped bass with a speargun.i tried to explain to him that that was in the rivers only he said their lawyers had been researching it and we can`t shoot bass.when my bud asked him if we could shoot other fish ,he said he wasn`t sure and asked for my phone number.he told me he would get back to me.i`m still waiting for the call.i got his name and looked him up on the web.he grew up upstate and just got on the job.yeah schooling and lack of awareness .seems to hand in hand.
He has absolutely nothing to do with making regualtions but I assume you know that. I got a bad haircut once. Maybe he got better or maybe he's just a terrible barber. It didn't make me want to abolish barbers as a profession either way. Not everyone is good at their job in every single field ever. Thats life. Make his department aware of the problem and FIX the problem that caused you a mild inconvenience.

It's one thing to argue about regulations, bad data, decisions based on said data and so on but it's unclear if you think management of fish should even be a thing or not. So.... What do you actually believe about the management of fisheries? Do you want any management? If so, who do you want the management of fisheries to be done by?
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Old 04-19-2020, 01:34 PM   #43
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

if you have a guy enforcing the law ,that dosen`t know the law what good is it? has anyone ever had a good experience with a dec cop? yeah we need management but not laws that are based on invisible borders in the ocean.how do we know how accurate the data is? is every fish that is harvested reported?i don`t think so.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:27 PM   #44
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

In that case you go about legally fishing and hold enforcement accountable. You fix the problem of one poorly educated new officer. DEC has never prevented me from legally engaging in whatever I'm doing. I'm aware of what's legal as it's my responsibility to know. If me and an officer disagree it gets sorted out. Can that mean a pain in the ass? Sure but it's the price I'm willing to pay for unfortunately needing police to make sure we are all playing fair.

In some cases like maybe Tog invisible borders make sense in others like Bass they don't. Getting data is hard work and calculations, projections, estimations are made all the time to the best of humans ability. Nobody is trying to intentionally be inaccurate in this case. It's not always right or extremely reliable data. It's a working with the best you can get situation. In the bass case the data is indicating that the general trend has been consistently down and that warrants action. I personally believe in this case that a general trend down is true so I'm not screaming bloody murder that something was done. I'm annoyed that this is where we have gotten to if anything.
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Old 04-20-2020, 06:54 AM   #45
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Re: ASMFC Atlantic Striped Bass Board Approves Addendum VI

why do you personally believe the trend was down?
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