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Old 12-12-2006, 11:47 AM   #31
CaptSport
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

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There's probably at least some truth to that. Boat owners can be pretty snobbish. On the other hand (and please correct me if I misspeak), but I've never seen a center console aluminum boat that had any deadrise. The only two I've been in -- a 15 footer in Baja and a 19 footer out of Noyo -- were a little frightening going down swell. They wanted to yaw excessively.
Tomol,

You just needed to trim the motor up a bit, that fixes that yawing problem. Which is not uncommon on smaller boats reguardless of hull material when the swells kick up. And, yes it is more pronounced in the "cheap ass skiffs" I mentioned previously. Which are of poor design as a result of cheap manufacturing techniques used in production.

Also, if you'd like to see properly designed aluminum boats (not designed just for flat calm lakes) I suggest you check out some of the boats made in the Pacific Northwest, Canada and Austrailia. There are several really nice designs out there.

Cya,

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Old 12-12-2006, 12:05 PM   #32
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

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Originally Posted by tomol
In southern California?!! How'd you manage that? Nice going.



Ain't that the truth.



There's probably at least some truth to that. Boat owners can be pretty snobbish. On the other hand (and please correct me if I misspeak), but I've never seen a center console aluminum boat that had any deadrise. The only two I've been in -- a 15 footer in Baja and a 19 footer out of Noyo -- were a little frightening going down swell. They wanted to yaw excessively.
I don't know what you mean by deadrise or yaw, but I can speak about Tim Kohly's Boat. It is a bad ass center consul deep V hull aluminum (about 20'). With 3 guys and a 50 HP outboard we made the islands in under an hour with a relatively smooth ride. On the way back the wind chop had us bouncing like crazy and it took a little longer. His boat is exactly right for its use. I'd be thrilled to have that kind of set up.

Here are my thoughts on boat options:
I've got to go outboard, probably dual for safety since I expect to go solo a lot. I've got to be able to trailer it and keep in a garage length-23' width-'9 height-8'. So I think a cuddy is out of the question. So I am really left deciding Glass or Aluminum.

Glass boats are prettier, heavier, more expensive, and typically require more involved cleaning and more expensive alteration. The pretty is good and bad because of resale and ladies. Heavier is good for not getting slammed, but bad for gas. Cleaning sucks no matter what, I get the sense its easier when you when you don't have to worry about scarring the surface. I've worked on boats my dad owned growing up and concluded the easiest one to dick around with was the aluminum airboat, it just required less complicated solutions to the infinite list of problems.

Aluminum - are cheap, ugly, light, my girlfriend says it would make her feel ghetto (ie read "no longer need porta potie for the princess), and apparently don't "deadrise" and like to "yaw". I like the cheap, ugly, light, and female repelling characteristics, don't know about the deadrise and yaw, and wonder if I'm missing other serious issues?
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:21 PM   #33
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

"DEADRISE- Measurement of the angle between the bottom of the vessel and it's widest beam. A vessel with a 0` deadrise has a flat bottom, high numbers indicate deep V shaped hulls."

A lot of deadrise makes for a softer ride, but requires more power and burns more gas than a boat with a flat bottom.

A boat without much deadrise at the stern tends to break loose and slide sideways. This is called broaching.

When I lived in North Carolina, I bought a 22' Mako center console. It had a nice sharp entry (a lot of deadrise) at the bow, but not enough at the stern. Coming home running down the big swells, it would broach and turn completely broadside, sliding down the face of the swell. This was not fun. I could see it coming, cut the wheel clear to the limit to counter it, and add power, but it would still happen. I sold the boat after two years and got a 23" SeaCraft with much more deadrise.

I can describe a direct comparison of the tradeoffs. After I got the SeaCraft, I met a guy who had a Mako just like the one I had sold, and with the same twin 115 hp outboards. He was new to going offshore 40 or 50 miles marlin fishing, so asked if he could follow me out.

We launched at Harker's Island and had to run across the flat sound for a few miles before going through the pass and getting out into the Atlantic. We both went to full power, and he ran off and left me on that flat water.

Then we got offshore in a decent swell. He was having a hard time keeping up without beating himself to death, so he tucked in behind me so that I could flatten the seas a bit for him. I was standing there at the console barely bending my knees and hardly noticing the waves, but I looked back in my wake and saw him completely airborne, with both props showing in air, before he crashed down.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:58 PM   #34
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

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In southern California?!! How'd you manage that? Nice going.
I keep my boat at a private slip. I met a person that had a slip at there house they wanted to rent out, and I took advantage of it. My boat is just shy of 30 feet.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:04 PM   #35
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

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Originally Posted by Clayton713
Aluminum - are cheap, ugly, light, my girlfriend says it would make her feel ghetto (ie read "no longer need porta potie for the princess), and apparently don't "deadrise" and like to "yaw". I like the cheap, ugly, light, and female repelling characteristics, don't know about the deadrise and yaw, and wonder if I'm missing other serious issues?
But then there's the pin holes and corrosion, Most of the people I know eventually get away from the Aluminum boats because of this reason. The
aluminums that are rivited are the worse, but the welded ones also have these problems. Just FYI
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:20 PM   #36
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

Bill's description of why you want enough deadrise is a good one.

I'd add that I don't think you need twin engines for a boat that small. A well-maintained single should be fine, and less expensive and easier to find. Most people would want a Vessel Assist membership anyways, so if something does go wrong that you cannot fix, you'll still get home. I can see your line of thinking, but we have a lot of harbors and great tow coverage in this area, so I don't think it would be worth the trouble. VAAA will cover you down into Baja: my card gets me about 65 nmi south of the line, and for longer trips I can get a rider that will cover me to 120 nmi if I remember correctly.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:54 PM   #37
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

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Originally Posted by santiago
Bill's description of why you want enough deadrise is a good one.

I'd add that I don't think you need twin engines for a boat that small. A well-maintained single should be fine, and less expensive and easier to find. Most people would want a Vessel Assist membership anyways, so if something does go wrong that you cannot fix, you'll still get home. I can see your line of thinking, but we have a lot of harbors and great tow coverage in this area, so I don't think it would be worth the trouble. VAAA will cover you down into Baja: my card gets me about 65 nmi south of the line, and for longer trips I can get a rider that will cover me to 120 nmi if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the info. That should save me 3-4 Grand.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:19 AM   #38
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

i think nate (tomol) would vouch for boston whalers as a good, fairly inexpensive glass boat, that really hold their resale value, and i have been in a copycat brand called carolina skiff, that have almost no deadrise, but are very cheap, especially used, and get the job done ok.

maybe instead of the twin motors, consider getting a "kicker" motor, i.e. a small 5-10 horse motor you can just clamp onto the transom, and use in case the big motor craps out. no waiting for vessel assist that way. being towed is a slow, bumpy, and sometimes barfy way to go, especially if v.a. boat is diesel powered.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:28 AM   #39
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

I agree with the single engine recommendation, but I also urge a Vessel Assist Membership.

The only thing worse than a free tow from San Clemente Island that lasts all night in rough seas is not being able to get one without paying a price that will seriously make you consider scuttling the boat and submitting an insurance claim.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:33 AM   #40
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Re: Where do you store a boat?

{maybe instead of the twin motors, consider getting a "kicker" motor,}

Better yet, instead of twin screws you can get "Vessel Assist" .... If you can get a good ole hull and a brand spanking new Honda 4 stroke for it, you will be happier than most boat owners.
As far as storage goes, I say find a place that allows 24 hour access. As my "Friends" know, we rarely leave after 8 am and return before 5pm ...nah, it is more like 5:30am departure and 9:30pm return ...
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