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Old 01-24-2023, 03:09 AM   #1
Keysspearoo
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Non-offset double flopper shafts

Looking to pick up some euro style double flopper shafts (not offset like the Riffe double flopper) in either 7-7.5mm for a euro mech. Pic attached is what I am looking for. It seems everything I can find online has offset double floppers or out of the correct diameter/length I need. Anyone have any ideas of where I can get them, or any websites to check? Within the US or International, I am willing to ship.

While we are on the topic, is there any advantage to an offset double flopper? Seems like thats what all the companies are making now but years ago you never saw them offset and pretty much saw the style im looking for.

Thanks
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Old 01-24-2023, 04:56 AM   #2
popgun pete
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Re: Non-offset double flopper shafts

Bucanero make those shafts.
https://www.diveshop.gr/index.php/137.html

It is easier to make the floppers lie flat on the shaft with them offset on two pivot pins as the flopper pairs don’t nest in each other as they do on a single pivot pin. Single pivot double floppers originated with detachable screw tip shafts, both floppers open up to engage on the fish provided the shaft goes right through it like a T bar.

Last edited by popgun pete; 01-24-2023 at 05:02 AM. Reason: more info
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Old 01-24-2023, 05:23 AM   #3
spearq8
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Re: Non-offset double flopper shafts

I used to use these double floppers quite a bit but decided they are only good for very small fish. A lot of the metal has to be shaved off to allow for a double flopper and thus your 8mm shaft ends up about 4mm in some places. Even a mid sized fish can bend that. Also to allow the floppers to close neatly there is another compromise in the thickness of the flopper itself ... so it also bends or flares way too easily if even a smallish strong fish puts pressure on it. Another real PIA is when you shoot a fish that is holed or even semi holed ... it is really difficult to pull the shaft out as it anchors inside.

For smaller fish or for fish that have super soft flesh and can tear out, a double flopper has really great holding power. But IMHO it has more negatives than positives. The over under flopper is a different issue and was really designed with Dogtooth Tuna in mind. Large DT are notorious for destroying floppers. If you look at Hunt's over under floppered shaft ... each single flopper is cut out of a 17-4 PH hardened SS pipe ... which is incredibly strong ... then they have a very large pin holding the floppers which then is TIG spot welded and then hammered. Even with those floppers I have seen them sheered off ... so with 2 floppers you have an extra layer of insurance.
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Old 01-24-2023, 06:01 AM   #4
Keysspearoo
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Re: Non-offset double flopper shafts

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I used to use these double floppers quite a bit but decided they are only good for very small fish. A lot of the metal has to be shaved off to allow for a double flopper and thus your 8mm shaft ends up about 4mm in some places. Even a mid sized fish can bend that. Also to allow the floppers to close neatly there is another compromise in the thickness of the flopper itself ... so it also bends or flares way too easily if even a smallish strong fish puts pressure on it. Another real PIA is when you shoot a fish that is holed or even semi holed ... it is really difficult to pull the shaft out as it anchors inside.

For smaller fish or for fish that have super soft flesh and can tear out, a double flopper has really great holding power. But IMHO it has more negatives than positives. The over under flopper is a different issue and was really designed with Dogtooth Tuna in mind. Large DT are notorious for destroying floppers. If you look at Hunt's over under floppered shaft ... each single flopper is cut out of a 17-4 PH hardened SS pipe ... which is incredibly strong ... then they have a very large pin holding the floppers which then is TIG spot welded and then hammered. Even with those floppers I have seen them sheered off ... so with 2 floppers you have an extra layer of insurance.
Thanks for the reply, its always good to hear from someone who has done as much testing as you have! Ive always felt the “over under” style of double flopper isnt great because the the spear needs to pass through a few more inches of the fish in order for both floppers to be effective, as opposed to the “european style” double flopper where it just has to pass through the same amount as if it was a single flopper. This could make a difference on long shots, especially with big fish where it might not even go all the way through with a long shot. Thats always been my thinking, but maybe I am just paranoid. I had never even thought of the thinner section where the floppers lay as a failure point until you mentioned it, definitely something to think about. Maybe I will stick with a single flopper then because the gun it would be going on is one that i use for deep reef and wrecks mostly targeting grouper and snapper, but also the occasional pelagic (jacks and wahoo) when they swim by, which is why i wanted the extra security of the double flopper in the first place.
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Old 01-24-2023, 03:11 PM   #5
popgun pete
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Re: Non-offset double flopper shafts

I have an 8 mm Bucanero double flopper shaft in stainless steel, the shaft is ground down to 5 mm thickness where the floppers sit. Double flopper screw-on spear tips sit on a larger body than the spear shaft as the spear shaft diameter screws into the rear of it, but the size depends on how the tip is styled, arrow head or pencil tip. It is cheaper to make integral tip shafts as less operations are required, that is why they are more common these days. Plus no hassles in getting the tips to screw on straight. Once spears and tips had an alignment step shoulder to force the tip to sit straight on the shaft, but this reduced the thread diameter on the shaft nose.
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:06 AM   #6
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Re: Non-offset double flopper shafts

Single flopper shafts work really well for almost any fish ... so long they are tuned properly. Most shafts come from factory without a tuned flopper and thus single flopper shafts get a bad wrap for not holding fish properly ... and many fish are lost in the micro second where you slacken the pressure on the fish a little ... then the flopper closes and fish comes off. Also the slacking and closing of the flopper tends to tear flesh. With a tuned flopper the flopper acts more like a solid hook and much less chance of a fish stuggle making the hole bigger and allowing soft fleshed fish to escape.

I made a 3D print of a tool I use which tunes a flopper in seconds ... and can be used even on a rocky boat. I usually am the designated "flopper tuner" and can tune everyone's floppers on the boat in a couple of minutes. I highly recommend this tool and I left it public for anyone to print it for themselves.

https://youtu.be/dz_QhcKSDtk
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Old 01-27-2023, 04:41 PM   #7
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Re: Non-offset double flopper shafts

You have a private message. I have plenty.New by Sigal.
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