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Old 02-07-2013, 10:02 PM   #1
SpearMax
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Exclamation Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish Plan!

Is there something fishy going on in Florida?

This 30 minute video condenses many hours of the recent December 2012 FWC meeting and presents highlights of both sides (pro and con) of the proposed Gamefish/Sportfish framework that several fishing special interest groups are advocating. The video features Aaron Adams of BTT, Jeff Miller of CCA, Scott Robson of DCBA, Tony Grogan of Spearboard and Denny O'Hern of FRA. There were several other speakers who made their points, but for time and fairness considerations, I selected these five - 3 for and 2 against. Please excuse the audio in some spots as we had some microphone issues.

The back story is that the Coastal Conservation Association (CCA) has been pushing for this sort of framework in other states for years as evidenced by North Carolina House Bill 353. The Bonefish Tarpon Trust (BTT) is a strong proponent of the designations. Other groups such as the freediving and scuba diving community are opposed on the grounds that this framework might allow the circumvention of the normal process of fisheries management that is largely based on science.

Diving in the State of Florida is a very substantial industry. The potential arbitrary nature of dropping fish such as cobia and many others into these categories is of great concern, especially to the consumptive diving community that enjoys fishing and lobstering. The economic impact of such moves on the dive equipment manufacturers, retailers and charter boats would be substantial.

Based on the public input at the December meeting certain changes were made such as the removal of the gear-type bias, however this is not enough. There is already in place a long-established science-based regulatory process for managing fish in Florida. The arguments that this framework is needed for "marketing Florida fishing" or "managing fish for abundance" are dubious at best. Thus, the entire proposed Gamefish/Sportfish Designation Framework must be vigorously opposed. It is not satisfactory to simply state spearfishing for the species permit would be allowed. The whole framework must not be put in place for the reasons discussed in the video and for other reasons.

Please attend the next FWC meeting in Orlando on the morning of Wednesday, February 13, 2013 to voice your opposition to this proposed framework for futures fisheries management that is Commission Chairman Wright's publically-stated personal agenda item or goal to create a "legacy" for this commission. Details for the meeting are at this link:

http://myfwc.com/about/commission/commission-meetings/

Also, please send an e-mail with your respectfully-worded thoughts to the FWC Commissioners at this email address:

commissioners@myfwc.com

Thanks!

.


.
Check out these materials from the FWC website:

.

Last edited by SpearMax; 02-12-2013 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Replaced video link with new one with better audio
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:17 AM   #2
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Here is an interesting thread started by Chuck before the December meeting.

The issue has grown to be about much more than Permit.


Upcoming fight over spearing Permit...again
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:56 AM   #3
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Excellent video, Tony. Thank you for making the effort to edit and condense this topic- I have shared it everywhere I can. I know Denny from Fishing Rights Alliance (the FRA) and your presence was a big difference at the past meeting, and now we need all hands on deck at this meeting in Orlando next week on February 13 at Sea World Park for public input.

Please plan to attend or submit public input online, and drop your state legislator and our governor a line while you are at it!
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:17 AM   #4
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

We were able to get DEMA involved in this issue. Here is an e-mail they sent to their members this week:

Quote:
On Wednesday, February 13, 2013, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission will conduct the second of two meetings regarding their efforts to "classify" certain species of fish using the terms "game fish" and "sport fish." As described by the Commission, these classifications have been proposed as a means to help promote Florida as the "fishing capital of the world."

Importantly for the diving community, these classifications will recognize that certain species may only be harvested using hook and line fishing equipment, effectively prohibiting spearfishing of these species.

At a presentation during the Commission's meeting in December, rules were proposed that would effectuate this classification process. The actual identification of the species as "game fish" or "sport fish" would occur at a later date however Commissioners commented that the following species are under consideration as follows:

Sport Fish (Spearfishing Prohibited)

Permit

Tarpon

Bonefish

Billfish of all kinds

Game Fish (Spearfishing Prohibited)

Snook

Red Drum

Spotted Sea Trout

For a fish designated as a "sport fish," the fishery would be catch and release only (no recreational or commercial harvest, possession, or sale) and hook and line would be the only gear allowed when targeting these sport fish.

For any fish designated as a saltwater "game fish," FWCC staff proposes prohibiting commercial harvest, possession, and sale; limiting allowed gear to hook and line for targeting and harvesting the fish; and prohibiting the captain and crew operating a for-hire vessel from harvesting any game fish.

Harvesting some of these species by spearfishing is already prohibited or discouraged. As with any restriction placed on diving-related activities, especially when fishing interests retain the ability to participate but divers cannot, DEMA has investigated the rationale and the proposed rules and has discussed the situation with Commission Staff and Commission Members.

DEMA encourages interested divers and dive retailers to attend this meeting on February 13 to speak out against any effort by the Commission to preclude spearfishing as a means of taking species not already prohibited. Attached is a copy of the presentation that was made at the December meeting of the Commission which explains the issue in further detail. Also attached is a copy of the proposed rule as it now stands.

The public rule making hearing is scheduled as follows:

Start Time:
8:30 AM

Place:
SeaWorld Park

7007 SeaWorld Drive,
Orlando, FL, 32821

For additional information contact Tom Ingram at DEMA, 858-616-6408 or tingram@dema.org or see the FWCC notification regarding the rule-making.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:05 PM   #5
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Wish I was back in The States so that I could go to this. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I hope that you and the FRA are able to fight this.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:44 PM   #6
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Wink Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishingdude View Post
Wish I was back in The States so that I could go to this. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I hope that you and the FRA are able to fight this.
You are welcome Ben. Denny, me and hopefully a whole bunch of dive folks will make it even though the mid-week timing stinks. I also enlisted DEMA's lobbyist Attorney Bob Harris to come for some dive industry clout. Fingers crossed we can stop this thing.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:22 AM   #7
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Question Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Yesterday, FWC sent me a revised draft if the intent language portion of this proposed rule.

They are feeling the heat of the dive industry objections I believe and this page was titled "legal review." I think the legality of some of the proposal can be seriously questioned. More on that later.

Here are the changes. Read carefully what they struck and what they added to that section. The rest of the proposed rule is attached to my first post above. I have attached a PDF file of these edits in case you need to print it out to see it better.

What does everyone think of this latest round of changes?

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Old 02-09-2013, 09:29 AM   #8
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

The new wording here implies to me that we really don't need a new "rule framework" if this underlined part is true:

Quote:
The definitions and rule framework for "game fish" and "sport fish" established under this rule subsection do not supplant or supersede rules regarding recreational or commercial harvest of a species so designated except as otherwise specified in species-specific rules of the Commission.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:32 AM   #9
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

This part implies there should be some sort of economic study to back this supposition underlined:

Quote:
The sport fish designation is intended to recognize that the economic and fishing value of a sport fish that is caught and released greatly exceeds their value as a food fish. Fishing for sport fish is an important part of Florida’s cultural heritage and contributes to Florida having more International Game Fish Association records than any other state or country.
Is there such a reputable economic study available?
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:55 PM   #10
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Well it all depends on where we are fighting from –
If we own a fish market and sell local Florida species then we are concerned as it will hurt our business.
If we own a local restaurant where we sell local seafood dishes it will hurt our business, some actually would go out of business as they are well known for their local catch favorites.
Drift boats are another concern as lots of local’s as well as vacationers set out every day two to three times a day to catch and keep the fish they catch so tell me, are you going to get $40 bucks from someone that can’t keep his fish?
Private charters??? So you go out and spend $500 to $800 for a day and catch a few good eating Dorado and a few grouper – you don’t have a place to cook them so no big deal just catch and release right? No harm done??? Do you know how many restaurants that will gladly build you a diner surrounded around your catch? Again local restaurants suffer AND the angler that paid big bucks gets the shaft as well.
Sward sport fish industry??? Do I need to expand on that one?
There are a lot of people that would not care to catch and release and most of them never get on a boat, fish off a dock, the beach or venture the stealth of spear fishing.
Take away the idea that if you caught it you could make the decision to let it go or throw it in the oven and you lose the very reason for doing it in the first place. Florida will lose anglers not attract them.
For reasons that escape me but for people that want to hook a fish, fight it to almost death then throw it back in the water they can do that! That is the beauty of America! Oh! And if you think that fish has a chance in hell to escape a predator if there is one around think again.
What are rules? Why do we have them? What are they for? Who do they protect?
If these rules are put in place Just because the governing body thinks it will spur new income through sport fishing they have blinders on.
Are the board members and the proponents to this type of control imbeciles?
No they are not!
Tread carefully up there in Orlando because the only shark you need to be weary of is the one you will never see.
Wish I could join you but I can’t.

You can print this page and use it if you like

Thomas LaPorta to common sense
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:21 PM   #11
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

ECSC club will be sending 3 people to the meeting.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:15 AM   #12
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Thanks for posting the revised language, Tony. I agree that the Greatly exceeds their value as a food fish is the key. Unfortunately, I don't think the FWC is adequately accounting for the economic value and inclusion of all consumptive fisherman, individuals who depend on catching fish to supplement feeding their family, party boats and drift boats whose customers offset the cost of the trip with being able to keep fish for their dinner table, local restuarants who depend on "cook what you catch" to differentiate themselves from chains, and of course the dive community which depends on sport diving as a tourism attraction to the 1.5 million divers that live in the United States, and the many dive related businesses that reside in the state of Florida.

I just got the FWC fishing survey that asks for itemized spending on fishing trips and it does not even account for the significant money I have spent on dive gear and dive trips in the past month.

When you consider the release mortality of these predatory fish that are considered for the sportfish categories including predations have been consistently shown in studies to be 7-17% I am just not sure we can economically justify or even prove the gains in the biomass would be significant enough to offset the damages to the excluded consumptive user groups.

Last edited by wvandeman; 02-12-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:29 AM   #13
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Lightbulb Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

I hope to see some of you in Orlando Wednesday morning who can take a day off to make it to the FWC meeting for this critically important issue.

Here below is a strong message I received by e-mail yesterday from Denny at FRA. He is one of the people in the video expressing opposition to this new Gamefish/Sportfish Framework for managing fisheries:

Quote:
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission will be meeting in Orlando THIS WEDNESDAY, Feb, 13 to vote on putting a GAMEFISH/SPORTFISH framework in place. This framework could turn every fishery into catch and release only. Consumptive users will be excluded for no biological reason. The FRA will attempt to broadcast on FRA TV beginning at 8:30 AM Wednesday at www.thefra.org/fisheyewide.htm

Whether you are a resident of Florida or an angler who travels to Florida to fish, please contact the commissioners to let them know you OPPOSE the proposed sportfish/gamefish designations.

There is a very good 30 minute video of the last FWC meeting available (Thanks Tony Grogan of Spearboard) on youtube here:

http://youtu.be/pRKIUbLNEsY

There is an email being circulated saying that bonefish and tarpon cannot be catch and release only unless these new rules are in place. This is absolutely untrue.

Fact is, there are fish that are ALREADY largely catch and release only, and if the Commission wants to, they can declare them no-take through the rulemaking process.

These measures do nothing positive or protective for the fisheries and they unnecessarily limit recreational opportunity and economic activity. In fact, they may actually put undue stress on the juveniles of several species.

Creating these designations will cause loss of fishing opportunity, loss of economic activity and loss of our fishing heritage. There is no biological need, nor is there any quantitative benefit provided by a 'marketing strategy' of these proposed designations. Take action below.

RED SNAPPER MASSACRE

Is blowing up live coral, red snapper habitat and red snapper themselves acceptable to the Florida Commisioners? Is it acceptable to you? Check out this video:

http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/...8fuT40W_Q.cspx

TAKE ACTION NOW!

Send the commissioners an email at commissioners@myfwc.com. Please CC fra@tampabay.rr.com.

Suggested Subject: Sportfish/gamefish opposition; red snapper protection

Suggested copy (feel free to personalize the following):

Dear Commissioners-

My message covers two issues, sportifsh/gamefish and red snapper.

I oppose any action on the sportfish/gamefish framework rules.

There is no biological need and no economic benefit, yet there IS an absolute reduction of fishing opportunity inherent in either designation.

This rule benefits few while taking from many.

I will be forwarding this to Governor Scott's office. I will also be contacting my state legislators, as I am appalled at the waste of state resources on such a non-issue.

Several people will be at the meeting to express detailed reasons for opposition of this action. Please pay attention to those people.

Under State of Florida law, I have the right to hunt and fish if populations are healthy. This framework appears to violate my right.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I appreciate the opportunity to submit a comment.

Again- I OPPOSE THE ENTIRE GAMEFISH/SPORTFISH FRAMEWORK.

Regarding Red snapper, you must take action to stop the destruction of red snapper habitat and the needless slaughter of thousands of red snapper every week. Please weigh in with the federal government regarding the health of the red snapper stock and its dependence on habitat. This needless destruction is unacceptable and must be stopped.

Thank you.

Your name
Address
Phone number

Denny
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:42 AM   #14
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Arrow Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

The owner of Divers Direct Kevin Senecal, my daughter Lauren and I saw Governor Rick Scott and Florida CFO Jeff Atwater yesterday at a Palm Beach Forum Club meeting. We are in the processs of getting this Gamefish Sportfish issue presented to them from the diving industry perspective. The timing is very tight as FWC Chairman Ken Wright is trying to push through the new framework in the space of just two FWC meetings with relatively little public input.

Here are some pics from the encounter with two of the top Florida Executives yesterday.

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Last edited by SpearMax; 02-13-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:57 AM   #15
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Re: Something Fishy? - Let's Roll to Orlando 2-13 & Stop the FWC Gamefish/Sportfish P

Hopefully we can get some traction, Tony. FSDA has been encouraging all of our membership to at least take 5 minutes from their time and email the FWC commissioner about our opposition to gamefish/sportfish designations, as well as the governor's office to support the work that Tony and Diver's Direct and Denny have been doing at the legislative level. They won't read all of the letters but the volume of letters in opposition to this legislation is important as the Bonefish Tarpon contingent is having their own big campaign today.

http://www.myfwc.com/contact/fwc-sta...commissioners/

http://www.flgov.com/contact-gov-sco...-the-governor/

Hope to see many of you in person tommorrow at Sea World!

Last edited by wvandeman; 02-12-2013 at 01:40 PM.
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